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Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

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Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#111

Post by aldebran »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #100
aldebran wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because the higher pay comes at the cost of peeing in bottles aka losing human dignity. It feels like there’s no shortage of people out to defend Amazon either.

If someone is willing to sell their dignity (which I guess is now defined by whether or not you urinate in a bottle) then why should we stop them? We’re not talking about safety or child labor where there’s a moral duty to put up guard rails.

As a society we should not create our support creating through inaction an environment where people feel it’s necessary to sell their dignity. Would you agree?

Amazon is big enough that it can create systemic problems where free market doesn’t work. If everyone in a town is being run out of business, people feel they have no choice but to take up that job.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#112

Post by jungturk »

dionidium wrote: post #93
dave_sullivan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will spend money on literally anything else except wage increases.

Obviously, companies don't want to spend more on labor than they have to. But I doubt that's any company's major concern with unions. The issue, as I see it, is the lack of flexibility once unions take hold. Now you have a large democratic body with a lot of control over hiring and firing and with undue input about who in the company does what and according to which rules, which means, ultimately, over the company's…

Can't companies negotiate contract terms with unions that preserve the flexibility they desire while addressing the concerns the workers had?

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#113

Post by parineum »

vintermann wrote: post #10
dahdum wrote: post #9

Anyone hiring ex-inmates in large numbers is doing society a great benefit, whether it’s altruism, PR, or both hardly matters to me. It’s not easy managing that cohort and few businesses are even willing to try. Many of those that are have worse work conditions. I’m 100% on board for tax cuts or subsidies for businesses who keep the formerly incarcerated employed.

Altruism and PR aren't the only options. If the explanation is "they'll be less likely to dare to ask for better treatment" then I think that's a problem.

And that's everyone but Amazon's fault, in this case.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#114

Post by otikik »

gruez wrote: post #56
chownie wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that's not at all true. Historic raises in the minimum wage did not cause an inflationary response in goods nor currency.

>Historic raises in the minimum wage did not cause an inflationary response in goods nor currency. The "historic raises in the minimum wage" were also very conservative and decried by proponents of $15/$20/whatever minimum wage as being too low. A one time pay bump won't cause serious issues, but giving in to ever increasing demands for minimum wage (ie. $15 last year, $20 this year, $25 the year after) will.

May I ask what are your sources for that claim? Honest question.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#115

Post by gruez »

XorNot wrote: post #104
gruez wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Historic raises in the minimum wage did not cause an inflationary response in goods nor currency. The "historic raises in the minimum wage" were also very conservative and decried by proponents of $15/$20/whatever minimum wage as being too low. A one time pay bump won't cause serious issues, but giving in to ever increasing demands for minimum wage (ie. $15 last year, $20 this year, $25 the year after) will.

Minimum wage should be going up all the time to keep it inline with inflation. That's the point of minimum wage. Minimum wage used to ride regularly, then since 2005 has remained constant while in real terms reducing by about 40% [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1065466/real-nominal-val...

> Minimum wage should be going up all the time to keep it inline with inflation. That's the point of minimum wage.

Except that if you adjusted the minimum wage in 2005 to account for inflation, you'll only get $7.93 today[1]. I doubt the people clamoring for a $20 minimum wage today are doing it on the basis of "keeping up with inflation".

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CPIAUCSL

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#116

Post by therealdkz »

missedthecue wrote: post #14
dave_sullivan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will spend money on literally anything else except wage increases.

They were the first to $15, literally leading a nationwide wage increase for low skill labor, and now they pay closer to $18 by me. For people trying to hate Amazon at any cost, the goalposts keep shifting. If Amazon announced $20 minimum tomorrow, there is no doubt in my mind that people would still be griping. And even when people concede that Amazon pays industry leading wages, it's "whatabout" the urine bottles a…

No post body was provided.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#117

Post by arrosenberg »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #90
arrosenberg wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you just said stopped being true in the 70s and 80s. Yes, B-corps are a thing, but the laws as currently constructed encourage profit extraction above nearly everything else.

That would be true if people believed economists like Milton Friedman created reality instead of what was really much more mundane. Those who do so are attributing supernatural powers to a mere mortal.

It is true, regardless of what you believe. There is a ton if empirical evidence for it.

Having the patience to push and set legal precedent isn't a superpower. Not sure what your point is here.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#118

Post by otikik »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #100
aldebran wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because the higher pay comes at the cost of peeing in bottles aka losing human dignity. It feels like there’s no shortage of people out to defend Amazon either.

If someone is willing to sell their dignity (which I guess is now defined by whether or not you urinate in a bottle) then why should we stop them? We’re not talking about safety or child labor where there’s a moral duty to put up guard rails.

Because every time something like that gets accepted, that moves the Overton window down, and makes it easier to take the next step. "What if they want to sell one of their kidneys? They are theirs. What if a little action in the backroom is needed for a promotion? They can always say no".

We should be building a better society for future generations, not for a few billionaires.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#119

Post by jjulius »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #100
aldebran wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because the higher pay comes at the cost of peeing in bottles aka losing human dignity. It feels like there’s no shortage of people out to defend Amazon either.

If someone is willing to sell their dignity (which I guess is now defined by whether or not you urinate in a bottle) then why should we stop them? We’re not talking about safety or child labor where there’s a moral duty to put up guard rails.

>If someone is willing...

I'm gonna stop you right there and point out that while nobody ever puts a gun to one's head when it comes to taking a job, it's never that cut and dry. They may not normally be willing, but they may be desperate enough under the right circumstances. That desperation, hell even willingness in and of itself, doesn't justify on-the-job abuses.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#120

Post by [deleted] »

CSMastermind wrote: post #3

I really dislike sensationalized headlines like this. A more accurate one might say: > Amazon's plan to counter pressure from the Teamsters Union focuses on investing in non-profits. For those who didn't read the article: A leaked Amazon memo shows that the Teamsters Union is effectively putting pressure on Amazon by convincing its members to pressure politicians into not granting Amazon tax breaks, land grants, etc.…

[deleted]
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