Live data from Hacker News

Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

vox.com

81–90 of 197 posts

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quotation marks implies they are directly quoting from the leaked memo, i.e. not a sensationalized headline.

That's not how quoting works. You can't just quote one word and then put something else behind it. There's a difference between "neutralizing unions" and "neutralizing labor's attempt to ..." It's like the difference between "we need to kill him" and "we need to kill his attempt to pass a law that would..."

[deleted]

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#82
post #42
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to play Devil's Advocate: a company can cut donations or most other expenditures anytime it wants. An increase in wages is effectively a permanent commitment, and the only way to reduce wage expenditures is to cut the workforce. This is why companies tend to prefer bonuses, etc, rather than pay bumps, even for individual employees.

Companies also want to retain the ability to fire at will, with simple HR processes, and to reward based on performance instead of seniority.

> and to reward based on performance instead of seniority

Or reward based on bootlicking, office politics and sexual favours. If you think companies are efficient and promote based on merit, I have a casting couch to sell you.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will spend money on literally anything else except wage increases.

They were the first to $15, literally leading a nationwide wage increase for low skill labor, and now they pay closer to $18 by me. For people trying to hate Amazon at any cost, the goalposts keep shifting. If Amazon announced $20 minimum tomorrow, there is no doubt in my mind that people would still be griping. And even when people concede that Amazon pays industry leading wages, it's "whatabout" the urine bottles a…

If the workers want unions… why not just let them have unions? Amazon is hell bent on suppressing worker power. Acting like Amazon isn’t doing anything wrong here is wishful thinking. We can keep pretending like the needs of the workers are immaterial to the functioning of society or we can let workers have some modicum of control over their workplace conditions. But right now Amazon is trying to crush workers rights and that’s deplorable even if you’re tired of hearing about it.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only point of a company is to maximize shareholder value. You're right, that doesn't always mean "maximize revenue at all costs.” It usually does though, because especially as a growth company that's what shareholders want. Obviously there are competing priorities, but overall most shareholders want to maximize discounted profit, and all their priorities reflect how that should be done.

That’s not true though. The shareholders are people so what they want are as varied as what people want. Does Elon want SpaceX to be super profitable or does he want to make life multi planetary? (They aren’t mutually exclusive, but it’s weird to think that he is just trying to make as much profit as possible).

One can also consider that the state is also a party because they license and privilege corporations and stockholders.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#85
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to give some support for this intangible and unverifiable complaint?

Just take a look at amazon warehouse worker turnover rate. No other company in the industry comes anywhere close. Amazon's strategy is to gamify work and force the workers to put the pedal to the metal until they burn out and quit.

>Just take a look at amazon warehouse worker turnover rate. No other company in the industry comes anywhere close.

But all that says is "people don't want to work on amazon". It doesn't say why they don't want to work there. The parent post made a specific claim (ie. "the workload is however much worse"), which is consistent with worse working conditions, but not proof of it.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#86

I really dislike sensationalized headlines like this. A more accurate one might say: > Amazon's plan to counter pressure from the Teamsters Union focuses on investing in non-profits. For those who didn't read the article: A leaked Amazon memo shows that the Teamsters Union is effectively putting pressure on Amazon by convincing its members to pressure politicians into not granting Amazon tax breaks, land grants, etc.…

I disagree that it’s sensationalized. The intentions do seem to work towards neutralizing.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#88

I really dislike sensationalized headlines like this. A more accurate one might say: > Amazon's plan to counter pressure from the Teamsters Union focuses on investing in non-profits. For those who didn't read the article: A leaked Amazon memo shows that the Teamsters Union is effectively putting pressure on Amazon by convincing its members to pressure politicians into not granting Amazon tax breaks, land grants, etc.…

Tax breaks and land grants are giving Amazon a massive advantage over all local businesses.

Even if you are against labour right and purely pro-business, how is a local shop suppose to complete? You are just destroying you local businesses in favour of a multinational that pays almost no taxes. I do not understand why this practice is allowed.

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#89
post #68
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many warehouses pay well over 20$/hour and others significantly less. What’s rarely mentioned is while Amazon’s compensation is roughly in line with industry norms, the workload is however much worse.

Care to give some support for this intangible and unverifiable complaint?

Just because you don’t like a statement doesn’t mean it’s unverifiable, objectively:

Average Warehouse Worker Hourly Pay “Avg. Base Hourly Rate (USD)” $14.99/ hour and $19.57 is top 10%. https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Warehouse_Worker/Ho...

As to the job sucking, “Amazon warehouse workers suffer serious injuries at twice the rate of rivals, study finds“ https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/12/study-amazon-workers-suffer-...

Re: Leaked memo reveals Amazon’s plans to combat the Teamsters in California

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporations are allowed to exist to create a positive net good. ie: the social contract works so long as we can plausibly reason that they, you know, actually benefit people more than they harm. Maximizing profit is a lie told to children for reasons I won't get into, but when it displaces the social contract, the end result is a justification of all sorts of socially pathological behavior, this included.

Everything you just said stopped being true in the 70s and 80s. Yes, B-corps are a thing, but the laws as currently constructed encourage profit extraction above nearly everything else.

That would be true if people believed economists like Milton Friedman created reality instead of what was really much more mundane. Those who do so are attributing supernatural powers to a mere mortal.
Post reply on HN