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Think different about Jobs

james.cridland.net

61–70 of 200 posts

Re: Think different about Jobs

#61
post #7

> (Incidentally, my Kindle crashed three times while reading this book.) I don't know which Kindle the author is talking about, but it seems weird to me, I never heard of a Kindle crash and I have 4/5 around, not counting colleagues'. And, maybe it is off-topic, but maybe it is not. Why would the author add this parenthesis if it was not a necessary adjunction to his point? Maybe it was a way to underline how non-App…

I've owned almost every kindle up to the current and experienced one crash- while using the "experimental" web browser. Not one of my 3 kindles has ever crashed while reading a book.

Re: Think different about Jobs

#62
post #31

I hope he also avoids products and media made my anyone who has not been an absolute saint their entire life. It's perfectly acceptable to dislike Jobs, no question about that whatsoever. It's also acceptable to stop buying Apple stuff for any reason. But if you're going to put a proverbial line in the sand on moral grounds then you had better stick to your guns and apply that to everything or you just end up looking…

you really think that "anyone who has not been an absolute saint their entire life" is a equivalent to "Devoid of any kind of feelings towards anyone else, he shouts, screams, cries and sulks his way through his petulant life"? because i don't. i think there's quite a difference. everyone can be an arsehole sometimes, sure. but that doesn't excuse those that are consistently unpleasant. there's a clear difference. so…

If anyone believes that Steve Jobs was "devoid of any kind of feelings towards anyone else" they are only fooling themselves. Painting him in a universally negative light is just as naïve as painting him in a universally positive one. Few things are black & white, and fewer humans are 100% good or bad.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/opinion/mona-simpsons-eulo...

Re: Think different about Jobs

#63
Isaacson's book is a hatchet job, with many errors, and some downright dishonest statements. It is a shame that Jobs cooperated with that hack.

In numerous passages, Isaacson will quote Jobs saying something perfectly truthful[1], and then follow it up with a claim that Jobs is lying. Most of the time, he doesn't provide any evidence that Jobs is lying, just the assertion, because, as Isaacson is careful to tell us many times in the book, Jobs is famous for his "reality distortion field". I guess this means that Isaacson doesn't have to back up his assertions, and of course Steve Jobs isn't around to defend himself.

One example of this is Jobs talking about how NeXT's software gave the Mac new life. Isaacson says this is a lie, and then goes on to quote Bill Gates who says none of the NeXT code made it into OS X. Now, this is an obvious and bald faced lie on Gates' part, but Isaacson doesn't know any better. He's decided that Jobs is a liar, and therefore , whenever someone says anything that disagrees, it must be evidence that Jobs was lying.

Reality is, OS X is NeXTSTEP with the Mac UI put on top of it, and at this point another 10 years of evolution. Gates was lying for whatever reasons Gates lies (and gates really is pathological in this regard).

Another example is how he treats the statements of Alvy Ray Smith. One of the really nice things about the PBS show on Jobs a few weeks ago was getting to see Alvy. He's clearly disgruntled. And this makes sense, given the extreme difficulties Pixar had in the early years before they were able to start doing features. As a result, as the company kept needing money, and since they couldn't' get outside Capital, they kept using Jobs' capital, and other founders would get diluted as Jobs would buy more and more shares by putting more and more money into it to keep it afloat. In Isaacson's book, however, this isn't really explained, and it comes off as if Jobs was ripping off the others. Isaacson takes Alvy at face value.... but doesn't seem to ask Catmull or others about it.

This makes Isaacson a sucker for anyone who has any "dirt" on Jobs, and he clearly didn't ask Steve about many of these claims (or if he did, he didn't put Steve's response in the book.)

The book is an excellent piece of propaganda. It pretends to glorify someone who it is obvious the public recognizes as a major positive impact on society, while subtly and at every turn, engaging in character assassination.

For the past 30 years, I've seen constant repetition of lies about Apple. I'm not really surprised to see Isaacson do a hatchet job-- as every other book about Jobs has been one as well. His is a little more classy, but a hatchet job none the less.

If you think you've got nothing to learn form Steve Jobs, or that he was a bad guy, well, that reflects a lot more on you than on him.

It's sad that, now that he's died, it seems the haters-- all of whom seem to be completely ignorant about the history of Apple and constantly repeating the same mindless party line-- feel that they are free to keep posting these bullshit stories and voting them up.

Its time to stop. I know you kids think its cool to bash Steve Jobs because "android android derp derp derp!" but this is Hacker News. This is the site for technology enthusiasts who want to do Startups. If you don't respect Steve Jobs for taking a garage startup all the way to being larger than Exxon Mobile in 30 years, by doing a small number of products exceedingly well, I don't think you should be hanging out here.

[1] I've had Apple products for 25+ years. I've been following the company for that long and have met a fair number of their executives over the years and a lot of Apple employees. I'm extremely well versed in all things Apple, to the point that I caught many innocent errors in the book. There are things I don't know about, of course, such as current plans, and things Jobs said that were private. But when I say "something perfectly truthful", I mean, the statement is something I know to be a fact from an independant source (not Steve Jobs) and it is at least a fair statement of the facts (leaving room for some of the statements being opinions. On at least one occasion, Isaacson calls an opinion a lie.)

Re: Think different about Jobs

#64
post #3

---------------------------------------- From Malcolm Gladwell's "The real genius of Steve Jobs" [1]: Jobs, we learn, was a bully. "He had the uncanny capacity to know exactly what your weak point is, know what will make you feel small, to make you cringe". Jobs gets his girlfriend pregnant, and then denies that the child is his. He parks in handicapped spaces. He screams at subordinates. He cries like a small child…

There would have been no Apple for Woz to kick anyone out of if it wasn't for Jobs. They needed each other, that's why they split the company 50/50.

In fact, that they split the company 50/50 when Jobs could have likely easily talked his way into a 70/30 split, is proof positive that the stories about Jobs being an asshole are bullshit.

When you have high standards, a lot of people are going to call you an asshole. When you produce fantastic products that are hugely successful, you'll get scores and scores of stories on hacker news from jealous people who want to tear you down.

But anyone who looks at the facts will see the truth.

Re: Think different about Jobs

#65
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you really think that "anyone who has not been an absolute saint their entire life" is a equivalent to "Devoid of any kind of feelings towards anyone else, he shouts, screams, cries and sulks his way through his petulant life"? because i don't. i think there's quite a difference. everyone can be an arsehole sometimes, sure. but that doesn't excuse those that are consistently unpleasant. there's a clear difference. so…

If anyone believes that Steve Jobs was "devoid of any kind of feelings towards anyone else" they are only fooling themselves. Painting him in a universally negative light is just as naïve as painting him in a universally positive one. Few things are black & white, and fewer humans are 100% good or bad. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/opinion/mona-simpsons-eulo...

In 30 years, I've never seen the kind of people who hate Steve Jobs or hate Apple be honest about either.

Re: Think different about Jobs

#66

I'm a fan of Steve Jobs for his vision and ability to see things we all blatantly are unaware of. He changed technology, but also advertising, movies, music, etc. But I'm glad to see someone holding him accountable for his life and the consequences of his actions. The iPhone rocks, but the Foxconn factory it was made in is so fucking hard to work in that they have suicide nets on the roof; almost a dozen have killed…

Spreading a bunch of lies and engaging in the politics of personal destruction is not "holding him accountable".

Also, I'm tired of seeing Apple haters say "I love me some iPods, so you must know I'm being objective when I say Steve Jobs murdered a man! Stabbed him in the back, even!"

Re: Think different about Jobs

#67
post #63

Isaacson's book is a hatchet job, with many errors, and some downright dishonest statements. It is a shame that Jobs cooperated with that hack. In numerous passages, Isaacson will quote Jobs saying something perfectly truthful[1], and then follow it up with a claim that Jobs is lying. Most of the time, he doesn't provide any evidence that Jobs is lying, just the assertion, because, as Isaacson is careful to tell us m…

Interesting...

Re: Think different about Jobs

#68

While you can point at how he conducted himself at Apple and scream "Monster!", what isn't mentioned in this post but is dealt with at length in his biography is how he conducted himself at Pixar. He was much more low-key about the 'products' at Pixar, he mostly was an enabler and negotiator for them. In Pixar's early days he invested an awful lot of his then-fortune into keeping it alive, and it was his cunning nego…

"I don't think it's fair to blame him for his behaviour."

Then who should we blame?

Re: Think different about Jobs

#69
post #3

---------------------------------------- From Malcolm Gladwell's "The real genius of Steve Jobs" [1]: Jobs, we learn, was a bully. "He had the uncanny capacity to know exactly what your weak point is, know what will make you feel small, to make you cringe". Jobs gets his girlfriend pregnant, and then denies that the child is his. He parks in handicapped spaces. He screams at subordinates. He cries like a small child…

There would have been no Apple for Woz to kick anyone out of if it wasn't for Jobs. They needed each other, that's why they split the company 50/50.

From the book Woz's dad didn't like the idea of Apple until Jobs pretty much showed him that it was a viable opportunity to make a living. Woz then listened to his dad...

Re: Think different about Jobs

#70

I'm a fan of Steve Jobs for his vision and ability to see things we all blatantly are unaware of. He changed technology, but also advertising, movies, music, etc. But I'm glad to see someone holding him accountable for his life and the consequences of his actions. The iPhone rocks, but the Foxconn factory it was made in is so fucking hard to work in that they have suicide nets on the roof; almost a dozen have killed…

I think you should visit china sometime. You'll probably realize that the working conditions at Foxconn are like working conditions at Google after visting a few of the smaller crappier factories. My grandfather owned a toy company (they do anything plastic injection molding) and the workers there had 20hr shifts -- although that has probably changed for the better now.

Locals there are probably applying to Foxconn the same way we apply to plush companies like Google/Facebook. And if Foxconn turns them down, they're forced to work at factories with far worser conditions.

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