Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
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Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
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Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#2My unpopular opinion. Here's Wirth's words: "The programming language Oberon was the result of a concentrated effort to increase the power of Modula-2 and simultaneously to reduce its complexity."
He kept on "reducing complexity" while re-building what is essentially the same, rather primitive, language. ANd he kept throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
One of the Oberons had three different loop constructs, and only one of those could be terminated early. Because reasons. Then a newer Oberon reduced the number of loop constructs, but also removed the ability to terminate them early. Then a newer Oberon... ad infinitum.
And you can see it in all the langage variants he built: he insisted that the core of the language be small at the expense of usefulness to the point of uselessness. And purely irrational academic fixation (such as function vs. procedure or the aforementioned loops).
Was he instrumental in creating a good teaching language, and one of the first good high-level languages (Modula/Pascal)? Yes. Did he do anything noteworthy after that? I honestly doubt it as he was pursuing this idree fixe of a "small language where you can remove nothing more".
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#3The web is getting hugged, I uploaded the PDF here: https://archive.org/details/Modula-2-and-Oberon
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#4My unpopular opinion. Here's Wirth's words: "The programming language Oberon was the result of a concentrated effort to increase the power of Modula-2 and simultaneously to reduce its complexity." He kept on "reducing complexity" while re-building what is essentially the same, rather primitive, language. ANd he kept throwing the baby out with the bathwater. One of the Oberons had three different loop constructs, and…
I'm also upset at Niklaus Wirth because how he sensationalized Dijkstra's article "A Case Against the Goto Statement" by taking the liberty to change its title to "Goto Statement Considered Harmful", causing a lifelong disproportionate stigma against goto and relevant programming constructs like switch/case, break, continue, etc. Dijkstra had never intended to take such a purist stance against Goto. I also mention this in my book Street Coder.
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#5My unpopular opinion. Here's Wirth's words: "The programming language Oberon was the result of a concentrated effort to increase the power of Modula-2 and simultaneously to reduce its complexity." He kept on "reducing complexity" while re-building what is essentially the same, rather primitive, language. ANd he kept throwing the baby out with the bathwater. One of the Oberons had three different loop constructs, and…
I'm also upset at Niklaus Wirth because how he sensationalized Dijkstra's article "A Case Against the Goto Statement" by taking the liberty to change its title to "Goto Statement Considered Harmful", causing a lifelong disproportionate stigma against goto and relevant programming constructs like switch/case, break, continue, etc. Dijkstra had never intended to take such a purist stance against Goto. I also mention th…
Not Knuth. Dijkstra.
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#6My unpopular opinion. Here's Wirth's words: "The programming language Oberon was the result of a concentrated effort to increase the power of Modula-2 and simultaneously to reduce its complexity." He kept on "reducing complexity" while re-building what is essentially the same, rather primitive, language. ANd he kept throwing the baby out with the bathwater. One of the Oberons had three different loop constructs, and…
I'm also upset at Niklaus Wirth because how he sensationalized Dijkstra's article "A Case Against the Goto Statement" by taking the liberty to change its title to "Goto Statement Considered Harmful", causing a lifelong disproportionate stigma against goto and relevant programming constructs like switch/case, break, continue, etc. Dijkstra had never intended to take such a purist stance against Goto. I also mention th…
? That was Edsger Dijkstra's article, if I recall correctly.
The standard joke is "Europeans refer to him by reference, as Nicklaus Wirth, and Americans - by value, as Nickel's Worth."
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#7My unpopular opinion. Here's Wirth's words: "The programming language Oberon was the result of a concentrated effort to increase the power of Modula-2 and simultaneously to reduce its complexity." He kept on "reducing complexity" while re-building what is essentially the same, rather primitive, language. ANd he kept throwing the baby out with the bathwater. One of the Oberons had three different loop constructs, and…
I'm also upset at Niklaus Wirth because how he sensationalized Dijkstra's article "A Case Against the Goto Statement" by taking the liberty to change its title to "Goto Statement Considered Harmful", causing a lifelong disproportionate stigma against goto and relevant programming constructs like switch/case, break, continue, etc. Dijkstra had never intended to take such a purist stance against Goto. I also mention th…
[deleted]
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#8My unpopular opinion. Here's Wirth's words: "The programming language Oberon was the result of a concentrated effort to increase the power of Modula-2 and simultaneously to reduce its complexity." He kept on "reducing complexity" while re-building what is essentially the same, rather primitive, language. ANd he kept throwing the baby out with the bathwater. One of the Oberons had three different loop constructs, and…
I wasn't convinced of Oberon; to me, MODULA-2 was great, and that's where things ought to have ended. And in terms of impact, his main accomplishment is clearly Pascal (and indeed, thanks for that!).
However, I do believe his aspiration to make things simpler is genuine. Occasionally, he may have gone beyond the 'sweet spot', but as an academic, this way of tinkering and trying out different things is something that is second nature. I admire that he wrote a language, compiler, OS and - later - also designed the hardware of his own workstation. That's the kind of teacher you want: "look, how easy it all is!".
His compiler book, which can be read in a day, remains a marvel of clarity and brevity.
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#9My unpopular opinion. Here's Wirth's words: "The programming language Oberon was the result of a concentrated effort to increase the power of Modula-2 and simultaneously to reduce its complexity." He kept on "reducing complexity" while re-building what is essentially the same, rather primitive, language. ANd he kept throwing the baby out with the bathwater. One of the Oberons had three different loop constructs, and…
I'm also upset at Niklaus Wirth because how he sensationalized Dijkstra's article "A Case Against the Goto Statement" by taking the liberty to change its title to "Goto Statement Considered Harmful", causing a lifelong disproportionate stigma against goto and relevant programming constructs like switch/case, break, continue, etc. Dijkstra had never intended to take such a purist stance against Goto. I also mention th…
From the opening paragraph of Edsger W. Dijkstra's letter to the CACM editor:
More recently I discovered why the use of the go to statement has such disastrous effects, and I became convinced that the go to statement should be abolished from all "higher level" programming languages (i.e. everything except, perhaps, plain machine code).
"Harmful" seems to me a perfectly appropriate characterization of the words "disastrous" and "abolished". If anything, it tones them down.
Re: Modula-2 and Oberon (2007) [pdf]
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm also upset at Niklaus Wirth because how he sensationalized Dijkstra's article "A Case Against the Goto Statement" by taking the liberty to change its title to "Goto Statement Considered Harmful", causing a lifelong disproportionate stigma against goto and relevant programming constructs like switch/case, break, continue, etc. Dijkstra had never intended to take such a purist stance against Goto. I also mention th…
Not Knuth. Dijkstra.
You're right edited it now, thanks!