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Why do so many technical recruiters suck?

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Re: Why do so many technical recruiters suck?

#31

Post by Chris_Newton »

tomjen3 wrote: post #13
dredmorbius wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also relatively little feedback reinforcement for the good (quality) recruiters. Since remunerative reward is based on quantity, not quality, market incentives are diametrically at odds with what both hiring managers and talent would benefit by. One solution is to not do business with or encourage the idiots in any manner whatsoever. I also jealously guard my time. If you're wasting, it, particularly on the p…

I am waiting for Google Voice or something similar to get here so that I can have all calls from an unknown number go straight to voicemail (including not actually ringing). It is not even that I get that many calls but it would be nice to know that you won't have some guy call you. I can't even imagine how annoying it must be for people who have business cards out there.

FWIW, we're considering getting one of these for similar reasons:

http://www.truecall.co.uk/

Not sure if it's available for use outside the UK, but we'll settle for just stopping calls to our phone from outside the UK from ringing given that 100% of them are junk. (In theory, BT can block them on request. In practice, that request has not been effective, so we're looking for a more direct approach.)

Re: Why do so many technical recruiters suck?

#32

Post by amorphid »

briancurtin wrote: post #22

They usually suck because they don't understand technology. To me, a good technical recruiter would be able to take my resume and actually understand (to some degree) what it is I'm doing. From there, when talking about my knowledge and interests, they'd be able to respond and interact, then tell me about actually relevant jobs on their hands. Instead, the conversation is a like driving the wrong way on a one-way str…

Believe it or not a recruiter can do a very good job filling technical positions without a strong understanding of the technology. All you need to know to get started is how to spot a qualified person, and the hiring manager can help with that.

Re: Why do so many technical recruiters suck?

#33

Post by JoshTriplett »

jacques_chester wrote: post #30

It is a classic sales technique to ignore objections and to turn them into new lines of attack. - ... You have to go to HR first. - Okay… in that case why don’t we have coffee or lunch next week? Bam. Objection ignored.

A classic bad sales technique. I'll put up with a lot of things, and under some circumstances I'll accept someone acknowledging what I've said and saying they can't provide that, but if you give me the impression that you just plain don't listen at all, you've just ended the conversation, permanently.

Re: Why do so many technical recruiters suck?

#35

Post by ervvynlwwe »

nirvana wrote: post #34

I'm curious how this recruiter would earn $15,000-$20,000. Is that the going rate for a full time hire? Is it usually a percentage of starting salary? Does it vary widely from firm to firm? Is it %20 of the starting salary?

Recruiters typically get 20-25% of first year salary, if their candidate is hired. If you're getting recruiters calling you, go ahead and ask them what their fee is. I've done it, and they do give you an answer.

That said, given such a high % fee, you also get an idea of how often they are actually successful.

Re: Why do so many technical recruiters suck?

#36

Post by mathattack »

I agree, most suck. The only ones who don't are ones with many years in the industry they services. There are ex-engineers that make good engineering headhunters. There are ex-brand managers that make good marketing brand managers. Even still, the good ones still have minions running around getting meetings for them, and having lunch, and cold calling, and generally being worthless. The lackeys are in the same league as used car salesmen.

One subtle point the writer may have missed: - I can’t really source candidates from agencies that are not on the vendor list. You have to go to HR first. - Okay… in that case why don’t we have coffee or lunch next week?

The second line wasn't ignoring an exception. It was a subtle was of saying, "If you're not hiring, perhaps I can find you a job."

Re: Why do so many technical recruiters suck?

#37

Post by briancurtin »

amorphid wrote: post #32
briancurtin wrote: post #22

They usually suck because they don't understand technology. To me, a good technical recruiter would be able to take my resume and actually understand (to some degree) what it is I'm doing. From there, when talking about my knowledge and interests, they'd be able to respond and interact, then tell me about actually relevant jobs on their hands. Instead, the conversation is a like driving the wrong way on a one-way str…

Believe it or not a recruiter can do a very good job filling technical positions without a strong understanding of the technology. All you need to know to get started is how to spot a qualified person, and the hiring manager can help with that.

I'll go with "not" when it comes to the recruiters in the Chicago area. I regularly get contacted for roles I have no measurable experience in, such as Django jobs, or really anything web related. While I have extensive Python knowledge, I haven't touched Django outside of a tutorial or two on a rainy day.

They seem to want to extrapolate Python expertise to cover everything that uses Python, but it doesn't work like that. I'd love to talk to a recruiter who understands this.

Re: Why do so many technical recruiters suck?

#38

Post by jacques_chester »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #33
jacques_chester wrote: post #30

It is a classic sales technique to ignore objections and to turn them into new lines of attack. - ... You have to go to HR first. - Okay… in that case why don’t we have coffee or lunch next week? Bam. Objection ignored.

A classic bad sales technique. I'll put up with a lot of things, and under some circumstances I'll accept someone acknowledging what I've said and saying they can't provide that, but if you give me the impression that you just plain don't listen at all, you've just ended the conversation, permanently.

Think it through. It's a good sales technique.

There are broadly speaking two kinds of sales. There is the kind of sales that takes months -- eg flogging SAP to a sap -- and there are the kinds that take minutes.

Recruiting falls into the second category, along with second-hand cars, door to door encyclopaedias, life insurance and so on.

In the short-sale field, when is the salesman ever going to see you again? If he can help it, never. There is no incentive to favour the long term. The sale is made now or not at all.

Hence high pressure sales tactics like "never take no for an answer".

When you recognise a short-sales technique, the only winning move is not to play. As logical types we want to appear fair and rational and the salesman will use that against us. Stick to your guns. Decide what you want in advance and refuse to negotiate.

Re: Why do so many technical recruiters suck?

#39

Post by JoshTriplett »

jacques_chester wrote: post #38
JoshTriplett wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A classic bad sales technique. I'll put up with a lot of things, and under some circumstances I'll accept someone acknowledging what I've said and saying they can't provide that, but if you give me the impression that you just plain don't listen at all, you've just ended the conversation, permanently.

Think it through. It's a good sales technique. There are broadly speaking two kinds of sales. There is the kind of sales that takes months -- eg flogging SAP to a sap -- and there are the kinds that take minutes. Recruiting falls into the second category, along with second-hand cars, door to door encyclopaedias, life insurance and so on. In the short-sale field, when is the salesman ever going to see you again? If he…

I didn't say "ineffective"; I have no doubt it works for people with zero ethics, intent on barraging as many people as possible until they find a sucker. As you suggest, that tactic has no place in a rational discussion. It also seems like yet another indicator of someone entirely too clueless to provide what they claim to provide, as suggested in the original article. So, like I said, try it on me and I'll end the conversation, permanently.

Recruiting, however, shouldn't fall into the short-sales category you described. Personally, I hope I never need recruiters; ideally I'd love to go directly from "exhausted the network of smart people I know and smart people they know" to "no shortage of smart people and no problem enticing them". However, if I ever do need a recruiter, I'd like to have one that I can count on to deliver world-class people that fit perfectly, and who I'll remember for the next dozen hires I need to make. I'd like somebody who I always remember when thinking about how I ended up working with the awesome person they found.

Re: Why do so many technical recruiters suck?

#40

Post by j45 »

Despite being 50 years young or so, software still is making the transition from art to science.

You can't recruit for something you don't understand.

- They're not technical - They're not connectors - They don't understand the job as being beyond a list of skills - Education doesn't come close to making up for experience

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