How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime • Hacker News Board

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#51

Post by tryitnow » Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 10:57 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #41

Interesting that the report only mentions incarceration rates at the end, but doesn't seem to give any credence to the idea that 'permanently' locking everyone up reduces crime. The incarceration rate in the US is unbelieveably high, and started exploding in the late 80s. Increasing the incarcerated population fivefold isn't considered to have had a causal effect on the decrease in crime across the board? Come on, pu…

My personal sympathies lie with ending the WoD and lowering the incarceration rate. However, I think a nearly fivefold increase in the rate of incarceration probably has something to do with declining crime as well.

Does anyone have any solid evidence that the jump in incarceration was not the driver of the decline in crime?

Maybe the Levitt paper addresses this. I'll check it out.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#52

Post by jwallaceparker » Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 10:58 PM UTC

bestes wrote: post #16

rationalbeats wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn't changed much because it is working great for a very well connected sub-set of our society.

Who are those people? Politicians? (serious question)

>> Who are those people? Politicians? (serious question)

Prisons and drug producers/dealers use lobbies and politicians to keep drugs illegal.

The fact that they're illegal is the biggest factor effecting their high price.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#53

Post by mcantelon » Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 10:59 PM UTC

bestes wrote: post #16

rationalbeats wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn't changed much because it is working great for a very well connected sub-set of our society.

Who are those people? Politicians? (serious question)

Prison contractors. It's a huge industry.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#54

Post by tryitnow » Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 11:06 PM UTC

The article Levitt's article. I want to note that in that paper Levitt found that the increase in the incarceration rate was a the biggest driver of the decline in crime:

http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittUndersta...

See Tables 5 and 6 on pages 184-185.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#55

Post by brown9-2 » Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 11:07 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #46

enjalot wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

did you read the article? It's all about how a traditional market (cocaine) got disrupted by startups (meth labs). With the lovely side effects of proving the War on Drugs as useless as we thought it was.

If you play this game, you can stretch anything to be "on topic".

And what's wrong with that? "On topic" is anything that interests the group.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#56

Post by o2sd » Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 11:24 PM UTC

bestes wrote: post #16

rationalbeats wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn't changed much because it is working great for a very well connected sub-set of our society.

Who are those people? Politicians? (serious question)

Actually, LOTS of people benefit. In no particular order: 1) Wackenhut (GEO group), private prison operator, and the entire prison complex (guard's unions etc) 2) Law enforcement. Even if the DEA had a 99% interception rate, that economics of the trade mean that it is still profitable at 1% supply. Hence, no matter how many busts the DEA makes, they will always need more resources/money/helicopters etc. 3) Banking and Finance. Drug money is the global financial system's liquidity float. It kept Wachovia solvent for nearly a decade. 4) The US Treasury. Do your own research. Suffice it to say, opium production in Afghanistan now exceeds pre-Taliban levels.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#57

Post by maximusprime » Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 11:34 PM UTC

enjalot wrote: post #37

maximusprime wrote: post #35

flagged. Never understood HNs interest in drugs. Hardly on topic is it.

did you read the article? It's all about how a traditional market (cocaine) got disrupted by startups (meth labs). With the lovely side effects of proving the War on Drugs as useless as we thought it was.

It's a political article. It's toxic.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#58

Post by maximusprime » Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 11:35 PM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #55

davidw wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you play this game, you can stretch anything to be "on topic".

And what's wrong with that? "On topic" is anything that interests the group.

So if 1,000 fashion graduates join HN and start upvoting articles about what type of fabrics are in season, you'd be fine with that?

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#59

Post by nickik » Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 11:36 PM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #55

davidw wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you play this game, you can stretch anything to be "on topic".

And what's wrong with that? "On topic" is anything that interests the group.

Agree. People sometimes see geeks as (dont have a good english word for it, in german we say "Fachidioten", maybe One-subject-idiots) One-Subject-Idiots.

I think its awesome that HN somethims gets into other subjects, the community holds a nice balance without to much regulation.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#60

Post by r00fus » Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 11:40 PM UTC

o2sd wrote: post #56

bestes wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are those people? Politicians? (serious question)

Actually, LOTS of people benefit. In no particular order: 1) Wackenhut (GEO group), private prison operator, and the entire prison complex (guard's unions etc) 2) Law enforcement. Even if the DEA had a 99% interception rate, that economics of the trade mean that it is still profitable at 1% supply. Hence, no matter how many busts the DEA makes, they will always need more resources/money/helicopters etc. 3) Banking an…

> 3) Banking and Finance. Drug money is the global financial system's liquidity float. It kept Wachovia solvent for nearly a decade.

Wow, I had no idea this level of corruption existed: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-d...

This indicates to me that there might be a strong connection between the prison-industrial-complex and the military-industrial-complex with that connection being drugs. Meanwhile, Big Finance amorally profits from all (including illegal) activity.