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How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

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Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#41

Post by vacri »

Interesting that the report only mentions incarceration rates at the end, but doesn't seem to give any credence to the idea that 'permanently' locking everyone up reduces crime.

The incarceration rate in the US is unbelieveably high, and started exploding in the late 80s. Increasing the incarcerated population fivefold isn't considered to have had a causal effect on the decrease in crime across the board? Come on, pull the other one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_Sta...

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#42

Post by feralchimp »

powertower wrote: post #32
feralchimp wrote: post #28

The most interesting point in this article (for me) was the argument that disruptive market pressure from methamphetamine (in particular, low barrier to entry on the production side) didn't just show "War on Drugs" activity to be ineffective; it showed it to be orthogonal to meaningful consequences. Production by cartels outpacing interdiction by law enforcement isn't nearly as convincing as an argument for ending Wo…

Ending the WoD? That's only what, about one-third to one-half of all law enforcement (and the prison system)? Do you realize how many jobs there are at stake here. Of course I've got my tongue in my cheek, but you do see the problem with the problem of ending the war on drugs?

It's going to take a lot of LEOs to guard the Manhattan Project weed/coke/heroin territories we instantiate in states that begin with the letter 'I' or 'N'.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#43

Post by sophacles »

bestes wrote: post #16
rationalbeats wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn't changed much because it is working great for a very well connected sub-set of our society.

Who are those people? Politicians? (serious question)

Aside from the prison/leo system mentioned below, Drug cartels have a vested interest in the continued war on drugs. There is no way they could reap the profits they currently get in any other way.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#44

Post by netcan »

powertower wrote: post #32
feralchimp wrote: post #28

The most interesting point in this article (for me) was the argument that disruptive market pressure from methamphetamine (in particular, low barrier to entry on the production side) didn't just show "War on Drugs" activity to be ineffective; it showed it to be orthogonal to meaningful consequences. Production by cartels outpacing interdiction by law enforcement isn't nearly as convincing as an argument for ending Wo…

Ending the WoD? That's only what, about one-third to one-half of all law enforcement (and the prison system)? Do you realize how many jobs there are at stake here. Of course I've got my tongue in my cheek, but you do see the problem with the problem of ending the war on drugs?

I don't think that argument holds so strong.

Cops don't just get fired when crime goes down. The number of police employed is pretty flexible, you can keep them on if you want. There are plenty of good uses for police.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#45

Post by onedognight »

powertower wrote: post #32
feralchimp wrote: post #28

The most interesting point in this article (for me) was the argument that disruptive market pressure from methamphetamine (in particular, low barrier to entry on the production side) didn't just show "War on Drugs" activity to be ineffective; it showed it to be orthogonal to meaningful consequences. Production by cartels outpacing interdiction by law enforcement isn't nearly as convincing as an argument for ending Wo…

Ending the WoD? That's only what, about one-third to one-half of all law enforcement (and the prison system)? Do you realize how many jobs there are at stake here. Of course I've got my tongue in my cheek, but you do see the problem with the problem of ending the war on drugs?

> Do you realize how many jobs there are at stake here.

Of course. Do you realize how many more people are saddled with the cost of providing those worthless jobs[1]?

[1] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Parable_of_th...

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#46

Post by davidw »

enjalot wrote: post #37
maximusprime wrote: post #35

flagged. Never understood HNs interest in drugs. Hardly on topic is it.

did you read the article? It's all about how a traditional market (cocaine) got disrupted by startups (meth labs). With the lovely side effects of proving the War on Drugs as useless as we thought it was.

If you play this game, you can stretch anything to be "on topic".

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#48

Post by Joakal »

maxerickson wrote: post #11
wisty wrote: post #3

In other words, high drug prices give money to gangs. Also, some drugs inherently encourage large gangs - stuff like heroin and cocaine has offshore production, which requires complicated supply chains with large (and therefore violent) gangs. As deplorable as meth cookers are, their small scale and low margins mean they only cause limited damage. Since they work alone, they don't need to shoot disloyal gang members,…

Meth production tends to change surrounding the availability of ephedrine and pseudoephedrine: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/etc/cron.html (The gist is that large labs tend to spring up whenever they find a bulk source for either chemical and then go away when that bulk source is eliminated)

I guess that explains why people complain that pharmacies refuse to give them cold medicine [0].

[0] "Give me some pseudoephedrine geez!!" http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1488355

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#49

Post by electromagnetic »

ww520 wrote: post #47

I thought the drop in crime rates coincides with the advent of video games. More teenagers spending time on the consoles and less time shooting each other.

Drops in rape rates coincide with the increased availability of pornography and prostitutes.

So I wouldn't be surprised if violence decreases with the availability of alcohol/drugs and entertainment.

I think kids are probably less likely to get into gangs if they're at home playing WoW and smoking pot.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#50

Post by felipemnoa »

This last paragraph was very interesting:

>>As a counter-example, drug use in Mexico is relatively low, approximately 2 percent, whereas in America it hovers around 8 percent. Yet, violence there is at an all-time high. The market and the crime surrounding the trade might have crashed in the U.S., but the death toll has only increased South of the border ever since that region inherited the title of lead cocaine importer. Currently valued at over $3 billion annually, the Mexican cocaine market shows no signs of subsiding, and as long as such a high-valued market exists, violence will most likely follow. <<

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