Google Engineer: What I learned in the war • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Engineer: What I learned in the war

#71

Post by fauigerzigerk » Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 8:43 PM UTC

samirageb wrote: post #70

nhangen wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a veteran. Served time in Kabul in 2008/09 with the US Army. While I don't expect anyone to thank me for my service (tbh, it makes me uncomfortable), I'm offended that you find it so easy to throw all Soldiers into a single bucket to be judged based on your own ethical standards. The fact of the matter is that we cannot choose our commander, or our mission, but we trust that our leaders do their best to do what's…

It's interesting how the criticism of supporting those that serve usually come from people that have never enlisted. Anyone that has served in a war deserves total respect for the sacrifices & suffering they endured every day, regardless of the ethics of the cause. All war is bad, not just those we think are 'worth it', so either give soldiers the respect they deserve every day or be quiet, because many of the libert…

Yes, many soldiers have given their lives to fight for the freedoms we enjoy and other soldiers have given their lives to take away those freedoms. That's exactly why I insist on making a distinction and pay respect only to some of them.

For instance, I do respect nhangen for defending Kabul against the Taliban. I do not respect the Taliban soldiers for trying to enforce some weird version of sharia law in Kabul even though they are also suffering and dying in a war.

Re: Google Engineer: What I learned in the war

#72

Post by lucasjung » Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 9:14 PM UTC

gnosis wrote: post #64

lucasjung wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have several friends and relatives who personally received this exact treatment. In fact, the overwhelming majority of the Vietnam veterans I personally know did. When my father left the service, he went to work for Pan Am and spent his first few years flying troops between the U.S. and Vietnam, and witnessed this sort of behavior on a regular basis. My sampling is hardly large enough to be representative, but I th…

"I have several friends and relatives who personally received this exact treatment. In fact, the overwhelming majority of the Vietnam veterans I personally know did. When my father left the service, he went to work for Pan Am and spent his first few years flying troops between the U.S. and Vietnam, and witnessed this sort of behavior on a regular basis." These are certainly some significant data points, if what they…

>These are certainly some significant data points, if what they told you actually happened. I would be interested to know whether they spoke about this sort of treatment in the 60's and 70's rather than waiting until much later -- when the "antiwar protestors spitting on war vets" image has become so much a part of American folklore.

That looks like a fun game to play. Let me try:

So your mother and aunts told you stories about how they were sexually harrassed in the workplace? These are certainly some interesting data points, if what they told you actually happened. I would be interested to know whether they spoke about this sort of treatment in the 60's and 70's rather than waiting until much later -- when the "male-chauvanist bosses hit on their female employees and passed them over to promote less-qualified men" image has become so much a part of American folklore.

>FOX has a long and sordid history of outright lies and incredibly biased reporting.

Please cite examples of outright lies.

>This particular story doesn't even mention the alleged victim's name. Nor does it mention whether there were any witnesses.

The first sentence of the story is:

"The Coast Guard in Boston confirmed that a woman in uniform was harrassed and spat upon near Occupy Boston protesters."

The Coast Guard would be prohibited by the privacy act from naming the woman.

The only point in dispute is whether or not the individuals responsible were part of Occupy Boston. The spokesperson said that they weren't part of Occupy Boston, which is sort of an interesting variatikn on "No true Scotsman:" Those rowdy protesters who do ugly things? No, no, they're not real* Occupy members."

Re: Google Engineer: What I learned in the war

#73

Post by gnosis » Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 9:51 PM UTC

lucasjung wrote: post #72

gnosis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I have several friends and relatives who personally received this exact treatment. In fact, the overwhelming majority of the Vietnam veterans I personally know did. When my father left the service, he went to work for Pan Am and spent his first few years flying troops between the U.S. and Vietnam, and witnessed this sort of behavior on a regular basis." These are certainly some significant data points, if what they…

> These are certainly some significant data points, if what they told you actually happened. I would be interested to know whether they spoke about this sort of treatment in the 60's and 70's rather than waiting until much later -- when the "antiwar protestors spitting on war vets" image has become so much a part of American folklore. That looks like a fun game to play. Let me try: So your mother and aunts told you s…

"So your mother and aunts told you stories about how they were sexually harrassed in the workplace? These are certainly some interesting data points, if what they told you actually happened. I would be interested to know whether they spoke about this sort of treatment in the 60's and 70's rather than waiting until much later -- when the "male-chauvanist bosses hit on their female employees and passed them over to promote less-qualified men" image has become so much a part of American folklore."

There's a difference between believing someone I know and trust (in this case, my mother), and some random guy on HN (who I don't know at all, much less trust) who claims some of his friends (who I don't even know exist) claimed something.

Now, if he wants to believe them, that's his business. But if he expects me to believe his claims, he's going to have to do better than just say he knows some guys who told him something happened 40 or 50 years ago.

"Please cite examples of [FOX's] outright lies."

You must be joking.

"The Coast Guard would be prohibited by the privacy act from naming the woman."

Assuming the source of the initial report of the woman getting spat on was the Coast Guard, this might be true. But there is no indication in the FOX story that this was the case. They don't mention any reason at all for not revealing her name (not that I'd believe any reason they gave).

Re: Google Engineer: What I learned in the war

#74

Post by lucasjung » Sat, Nov 12, 2011, 10:35 PM UTC

gnosis wrote: post #73

lucasjung wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These are certainly some significant data points, if what they told you actually happened. I would be interested to know whether they spoke about this sort of treatment in the 60's and 70's rather than waiting until much later -- when the "antiwar protestors spitting on war vets" image has become so much a part of American folklore. That looks like a fun game to play. Let me try: So your mother and aunts told you s…

"So your mother and aunts told you stories about how they were sexually harrassed in the workplace? These are certainly some interesting data points, if what they told you actually happened. I would be interested to know whether they spoke about this sort of treatment in the 60's and 70's rather than waiting until much later -- when the "male-chauvanist bosses hit on their female employees and passed them over to pro…

>There's a difference between believing someone I know and trust (in this case, my mother), and some random guy on HN (who I don't know at all, much less trust) who claims some of his friends (who I don't even know exist) claimed something.

I can play that game, too:

There's a difference between believing someone I know and trust (in this case, my father, uncle, and the fathers and uncles of close friends), and some random guy on HN (who I don't know at all, much less trust) who claims some sociologist (who I never previously heard of) claimed something.

>You must be joking.

If it's as prevalent as you seem to believe, you should have no problem producing some concrete examples.

>Assuming the source of the initial report of the woman getting spat on was the Coast Guard, this might be true. But there is no indication in the FOX story that this was the case.

Since you clearly missed it the first time, I'll repeat myself:

>The first sentence of the story is: "The Coast Guard in Boston confirmed that a woman in uniform was harrassed and spat upon near Occupy Boston protesters."