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Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

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Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#31

Post by normac2 »

hinkley wrote: post #3
jmclnx wrote: post #2

Interesting read, gained even more respect for him from this article.

Before the #MeToo movement there was a slow ramp of scandals about celebrities and for a while there every time someone posted about Fred I would recite a little litany in my head, Pleasebegoodpleasebegoodpleasebegood That went into overdrive after the first rumors about Bill Cosby started up. And then by John Lassiter I was a momentary wreck every time Fred made the news. Fred Rogers has been gone long enough now th…

Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/767/

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#32

Post by Ma8ee »

b112 wrote: post #16
nimbius wrote: post #10

I'd argue the five minutes of episode when Fred soaked his feet with a black man in a kiddie pool delivered a more crushing blow to the KKK than his suit did. a lot of kids saw that, and in turn became a lot harder to indoctrinate. bigots and racists unfortunately remembered that lesson very well. teaching lgbtq and the history of race in this country is all but forbidden in some States because it works.

What a weird way to put it, it makes it sound as if this difference of opinion is hate based, not just a wrong belief. It isn't forbidden "because it works", it is forbidden "because teaching works", and a step back, "they believe it to be wrong information" By stating your shortcut, eg "teaching works", I feel you are glossing over, while unintentionally, the fact that there is an actual difference of belief here. S…

> it makes it sound as if this difference of opinion is hate based

Yes. If you think black people or gay people are inferior, and that their rights should be suppressed because of that, that is hate.

> “they believe it to be wrong information”

And we believe what they peddle to be lies grounded in hate and bigotry.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#33

Post by eesmith »

b112 wrote: post #16
nimbius wrote: post #10

I'd argue the five minutes of episode when Fred soaked his feet with a black man in a kiddie pool delivered a more crushing blow to the KKK than his suit did. a lot of kids saw that, and in turn became a lot harder to indoctrinate. bigots and racists unfortunately remembered that lesson very well. teaching lgbtq and the history of race in this country is all but forbidden in some States because it works.

What a weird way to put it, it makes it sound as if this difference of opinion is hate based, not just a wrong belief. It isn't forbidden "because it works", it is forbidden "because teaching works", and a step back, "they believe it to be wrong information" By stating your shortcut, eg "teaching works", I feel you are glossing over, while unintentionally, the fact that there is an actual difference of belief here. S…

> it makes it sound as if this difference of opinion is hate based, not just a wrong belief

The belief was one of racial superiority and hatred over the movement towards equal rights and equal access, which knocked them off the pedestal they believed they were born to be on. They didn't like how their children were being "corrupted" by the ideals of racial equality, which upset their views about social hierarchy.

Public pools shut down or were privatized after desegregation and civil rights laws made it impossible to have "whites only" public pools. There's a book on this overall topic: Contested Waters: A Social History of Swimming Pools in America.

There's an infamous picture of a motel manager pouring pool chemicals into the motel pool to scare desegregationalist activists who were swimming in it - https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/motel-manager-pouring-acid-... .

Here's background on the context of the wading pool: https://www.today.com/popculture/how-mister-rogers-pool-mome... . "This 'Mister Rogers' moment broke race barriers. It's just as powerful today / The scene aired amid racial tensions in the U.S. over segregated swimming pools, and many see it as Rogers taking a stand against racism. ... The same year it aired, the Supreme Court ruled that pools could not be segregated by race."

You can also read what Clemmons (who played the officer) has to say about it in his memoir, "Officer Clemmons: A Memoir", which has this scene on the cover.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#34

Post by Dylan16807 »

fallingknife wrote: post #15
Retric wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Anti-racism is usually structured around conscious efforts and deliberate actions which are intended to provide equal opportunities for all people on both an individual and a systemic level.” Actually being color blind rather than having the appearance of being color blind is a tricky thing. Taken to an extreme, a collage which had a purely random acceptance criteria is non discriminatory, but it would feel like dis…

Yes that is the technical definition of discrimination, but when people say something is "discriminatory" they usually mean discriminatory in a way that it isn't supposed to be. To your example of a college, it is supposed to discriminate on academic performance, so nobody has a problem with discrimination on GPA (of course comparing GPAs is still an implementation problem). And to say it's hard to be colorblind is n…

> You will probably fall back to the line that black students would have had a higher GPA if they weren't discriminated against in other areas of society, but then it's not the school doing the discriminating. And this is the core of the problem. Instead of selecting the best students, universities have decided to select who they think hypothetically would have been the best student in a perfect world, and doing a very poor job of it.

It's more complicated than that.

If someone is in a bad environment, they can have a worse GPA and be a worse student at that moment, but once they get into the college environment they will be a better student, not just "could have been".

> And their arrogance in appointing themselves the corrector of all societal ills and their myopic focus on only gender and race differences in doing so has pissed a lot of people off.

Appointing themselves the corrector? For anyone that does have that motivation, they'd probably gladly welcome more cooperation. And those two getting most of the focus is because they get most of the discrimination.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#35

Post by shadowgovt »

OJFord wrote: post #11

I watched Tom Hanks' portrayal on the plane a few months ago; being non-American and unfamiliar with the original programme, I was a good way in to the film before I started to suspect it was a 'docudrama' rather than the surrealist drama I'd thitherto thought! It was an enjoyable film about an apparently almost 'too good to be true' gentleman even without the context of having grown up with The Neighbourhood .

Rogers is the only childhood hero I had who turned out to be exactly who he seemed to be.

And with no small amount of work... He was a trained Presbyterian minister and child psychologist. His show was a religious vocation.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#36

Post by shadowgovt »

nimbius wrote: post #10

I'd argue the five minutes of episode when Fred soaked his feet with a black man in a kiddie pool delivered a more crushing blow to the KKK than his suit did. a lot of kids saw that, and in turn became a lot harder to indoctrinate. bigots and racists unfortunately remembered that lesson very well. teaching lgbtq and the history of race in this country is all but forbidden in some States because it works.

The lawsuit stopped three Klansmen.

Fred's show inoculated a generation against their lies.

I totally agree.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#37

Post by dhosek »

shadowgovt wrote: post #35
OJFord wrote: post #11

I watched Tom Hanks' portrayal on the plane a few months ago; being non-American and unfamiliar with the original programme, I was a good way in to the film before I started to suspect it was a 'docudrama' rather than the surrealist drama I'd thitherto thought! It was an enjoyable film about an apparently almost 'too good to be true' gentleman even without the context of having grown up with The Neighbourhood .

Rogers is the only childhood hero I had who turned out to be exactly who he seemed to be. And with no small amount of work... He was a trained Presbyterian minister and child psychologist. His show was a religious vocation.

I literally have a picture of Mr Rogers on the wall over my desk as a reminder of how I want to be.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#38

Post by b112 »

tptacek wrote: post #26
b112 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a weird way to put it, it makes it sound as if this difference of opinion is hate based, not just a wrong belief. It isn't forbidden "because it works", it is forbidden "because teaching works", and a step back, "they believe it to be wrong information" By stating your shortcut, eg "teaching works", I feel you are glossing over, while unintentionally, the fact that there is an actual difference of belief here. S…

Whatever your definition of "hate" is, if it doesn't capture teaching people to believe Black people are inferior, it's an unproductive definition, one that will just lead you into constant unproductive semantic debates. A lesson that Black people are inferior is a lesson reasonable people will consider hateful. Some beliefs people hold are simply hateful; we are not bound to respect them.

You are seeing hate, as a reflection of your own emotional response to the act. You are also insisting that those responsible, must believe just as you do, and therefore presuming they think their act wrong.

If you cannot see how they view they world, how their thinking is wrong, cannot see how they think, you have zero chance of correcting it.

Re: Mr. Rogers sued the KKK (2021)

#39

Post by ncr100 »

OJFord wrote: post #11

I watched Tom Hanks' portrayal on the plane a few months ago; being non-American and unfamiliar with the original programme, I was a good way in to the film before I started to suspect it was a 'docudrama' rather than the surrealist drama I'd thitherto thought! It was an enjoyable film about an apparently almost 'too good to be true' gentleman even without the context of having grown up with The Neighbourhood .

Rogers practiced effective communication for children, which I believe is worthwhile studying as an adult. Helps with clarity.

Starts with:

1. State the idea you wish to express as clearly as possible, and in terms preschoolers can understand. Example: "It is dangerous to play in the street."

2. Rephrase in a positive manner, as in "It is good to play where it is safe."

3. Rephrase the idea, bearing in mind that preschoolers cannot yet make subtle distinctions and need to be redirected to authorities they trust. As in, “Ask your parents where it is safe to play.”

Ends with:

... 9. => "Your favorite grown-ups can tell you where it is safe to play. It is important to try to listen to them, and listening is an important part of growing."

Remainder of rules available at https://www.openculture.com/2019/05/mr-rogers-nine-rules-for...

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