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How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

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Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#21

Post by Retric »

rick888 wrote: post #10
burgerbrain wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think would happen to a Mexican police officer and his family if he tried to simply "just do his job"? There is a reason the police are the ones wearing ski masks down there: http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/WO-AG531_MEXICO_G_...

How did it get to this level? We have criminal gangs in the US and the police here don't have to worry about that. It's mostly because of our justice system and the fact that you can't buy off any cop with some cash.

You can buy off US cop's with cash or threats of violence etc. The solution in the US has been the state cops and the FBI, which rotates people around enough so bribing them is less useful. Now add in an internal affairs office with some real teeth. Which creates a structure where bribed local cops tend to only ignore a subset of crimes.

In other words have overlapping independent organizations all investigating each other and add in people that don't stay in an area long enough to be bribed safely.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#22

Post by mooism2 »

bestes wrote: post #16
rationalbeats wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn't changed much because it is working great for a very well connected sub-set of our society.

Who are those people? Politicians? (serious question)

Prison operators and their employees. To a lesser extent police departments and officers.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#23

Post by splat »

bestes wrote: post #16
rationalbeats wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn't changed much because it is working great for a very well connected sub-set of our society.

Who are those people? Politicians? (serious question)

Prison guard unions would be one. The War on Drugs is a major contributor to the sad statistic that the US has more prisoners than any other country on the planet (not per capita, more prisoners, period). That means good business for prison guards, and the prison guard union wields a disproportionate amount of power, at least in California.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#24

Post by aninteger »

bestes wrote: post #16
rationalbeats wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hasn't changed much because it is working great for a very well connected sub-set of our society.

Who are those people? Politicians? (serious question)

The Correctional Peace Officer union is the second strongest/most powerful union in California (behind California Teachers Association). Privatized prisons also contribute great deals of money to political candidates.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#25

Post by Daishiman »

rick888 wrote: post #9
TruthElixirX wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would stop a significant amount of the violence as explained by the fucking article. It is impossible to police drugs. Drugs even get into US max security prisons. The most fucking locked down place on Earth. If you can't eradicate it there how do you plan on eradicating it outside?

"It would stop a significant amount of the violence as explained by the fucking article." I'm sorry, I read the article and I disagree. I'm merely giving a different view and you have to get all angry about it. You should use more logic and less emotion when dealing with issues like this. "The most fucking locked down place on Earth. If you can't eradicate it there how do you plan on eradicating it outside?" I never…

You have no supporting evidence to what you say and it doesn't really correspond with anything seen in real life.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#26

Post by luriel »

rick888 wrote: post #10
burgerbrain wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think would happen to a Mexican police officer and his family if he tried to simply "just do his job"? There is a reason the police are the ones wearing ski masks down there: http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/WO-AG531_MEXICO_G_...

How did it get to this level? We have criminal gangs in the US and the police here don't have to worry about that. It's mostly because of our justice system and the fact that you can't buy off any cop with some cash.

> How did it get to this level?

The same way the US got to the level where it decided to abolish alcohol prohibition.

This story is not new, just now politicians have a harder time admitting they did something wrong, and the prison (workers) lobby and the DEA will do all they can to continue.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#27

Post by luriel »

rick888 wrote: post #9
TruthElixirX wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would stop a significant amount of the violence as explained by the fucking article. It is impossible to police drugs. Drugs even get into US max security prisons. The most fucking locked down place on Earth. If you can't eradicate it there how do you plan on eradicating it outside?

"It would stop a significant amount of the violence as explained by the fucking article." I'm sorry, I read the article and I disagree. I'm merely giving a different view and you have to get all angry about it. You should use more logic and less emotion when dealing with issues like this. "The most fucking locked down place on Earth. If you can't eradicate it there how do you plan on eradicating it outside?" I never…

You got it totally backwards, it is prohibition that causes the corruption. We have seen this before with alcohol prohibition in the US.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#28

Post by feralchimp »

The most interesting point in this article (for me) was the argument that disruptive market pressure from methamphetamine (in particular, low barrier to entry on the production side) didn't just show "War on Drugs" activity to be ineffective; it showed it to be orthogonal to meaningful consequences.

Production by cartels outpacing interdiction by law enforcement isn't nearly as convincing as an argument for ending WoD activity. On the contrary, it's something that WoD hawks can point to and say "See? We need more [crazy expensive/attractive-nuisance-for-thugs resource X]!"

Modest proposal: The U.S. needs a Manhattan Project for weed/coke/heroin poppy production. Legality of demand isn't required; production just needs to completely undercut the market value of weed/heroin currently imported to the U.S. (or exported from Afghanistan, for example).

Beats subsidizing corn for ethanol, at least.

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#29

Post by nate_meurer »

splat wrote: post #23
bestes wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are those people? Politicians? (serious question)

Prison guard unions would be one. The War on Drugs is a major contributor to the sad statistic that the US has more prisoners than any other country on the planet (not per capita, more prisoners, period). That means good business for prison guards, and the prison guard union wields a disproportionate amount of power, at least in California.

Yes! Exactly right. The prison guard union in California lobbies hard against any attempt at even mild reforms of drug laws. Here's a taste:

http://reason.com/blog/2011/06/07/prison-guards-union-locks-...

Re: How the Plummeting Price of Cocaine Fueled the Nationwide Drop in Violent Crime

#30

Post by anamax »

rick888 wrote: post #15
burgerbrain wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think would happen to a Mexican police officer and his family if he tried to simply "just do his job"? There is a reason the police are the ones wearing ski masks down there: http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/WO-AG531_MEXICO_G_...

I'm shocked at the number of closed-minded members of the HN community. If the answer to the violence in Mexico isn't: "let's legalize all drugs!", I get down voted. I wasn't a troll and explained my points, yet nobody wants to listen. It's sad. It's becoming more and more difficult to fight this mentality. I thought this was a community of intelligent people, yet I'm beginning to realize that this just isn't the cas…

> I'm shocked at the number of closed-minded members of the HN community. ... I get down voted.

> I thought this was a community of intelligent people, yet I'm beginning to realize that this just isn't the case anymore.

Yes, it could be that we're close-minded and not smart enough to appreciate your brilliance.

Or, it could be that "we" thought that you were an annoying self-important git and/or point-whore and are downvoting you for that.

For the record, I didn't read your brilliance or down-vote you. That said, it's never the audience's fault.

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