Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021) • Hacker News Board

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#331

Post by mrwnmonm » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 3:56 PM UTC

worthless-trash wrote: post #247

Mister_Snuggles wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Operating systems are starting to make that impossible. I used to use an old version of Quicken for Mac (this was back in the MacOS 10.2 days). It was "finished" in that it did absolutely everything I needed and there were no bugs that affected me. As time marched on, Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel which was fine because they had technology (Rosetta) which allowed me to run PowerPC applications. Then they dropp…

No, shitty operating systems make that impossible.

Docker?

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#332

Post by xg15 » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 3:59 PM UTC

feanaro wrote: post #137

ChildOfChaos wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, it's usually nothing to do with the fact they weren't viable before, it's just that subscriptions are more profitable. With cost of living crisis and such, soon enough though it won't be able to last. People are already cancelling one of the biggest main subscriptions they have (netflix). Also I fear this is really changing society. Many years ago, as you got older you got into a better place in life because…

What happens is that you'll have to use less stuff and learn to be content with it. What this means for the endless, exponential "consumer" ideology is that it isn't sustainable in the long run. This should be blindingly obvious but for some reason many people weren't or aren't seeing it.

There is a difference though between "making the most of what you have" and "navigating a growing amount of deliberate, arbitrary restrictions".

Only because you can't afford a subscription won't mean that people will stop trying to upsell. Instead you'll be constantly confronted with all the things you're supposedly missing out on, will be stuck with purposely annoying workflows and generally will feel like constantly using the shareware version of everything. That's not a future I personally look forward to.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#333

Post by ClumsyPilot » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 4:00 PM UTC

prmoustache wrote: post #101

johannes1234321 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see the unsubscription flow only after subscribing. Thus you can't make your buying decision based on it.

You usually can with a bit of research or asking for it. You are however not certain it won't change.

You cannot get this information fron the business offering you the subscribtion, and its not in the contract, therefore it basicslly doesn't exist.

You can't rely on information from 3rd parties - those parties are under no obligation to tell you the truth, could be wrong or out of date

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#334

Post by fuzzfactor » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #307

chrisandchris wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of the problem is that most of these startups simply have too much overhead to offer their product for free or cheap. I think that is not the issue. The issue is having a physical product that is tied to a subscription which could also be a one-time fee. Like a subscription for your dorbell - just why?

> Like a subscription for your dorbell - just why? Servers (and the staff to maintain them) have an ongoing cost. Human labor is also a pesky subscription.

>Human labor is also a pesky subscription.

Exactly.

So this is why this type of subscription is fundamentally for consumers who might otherwise employ a professional doorman.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#335

Post by jwommack » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

yourMadness wrote: post #88

gordaco wrote: post #67

I'm a very, very firm believer on not paying for "subscription" to software. New content, I can understand (I spend about 40€ monthly on several Patreons, mostly comic artists; and I have a couple news subscriptions as well), although I still hate music/tv subscriptions and I don't want Netflix, Spotify or whatever. But for software, no matter how useful it is , I just refuse to choose between an unbounded price and…

Would you use a service that converts subscriptions into one time purchases at 20x the yearly subscription cost?

There’s a reason they stopped selling Photoshop in non-subscription when the pricing difference was something like this.

$699 vs $49/mo. Now maybe $20/mo since they no longer force bundling and have lower cost feature restricted versions.

The math was easy at the time because you’d break even in 2 years with the old price. Now it’d be like 4 but plenty of users were on CS2 for 6 or so.

Since 12x is your 1 year break even rate it’s not too unreasonable. Especially if you’re not upgrading it ever year.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#336

Post by goosedragons » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 4:08 PM UTC

jbluepolarbear wrote: post #317

worthless-trash wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, shitty operating systems make that impossible.

What’s an operating system that makes it possible?

I'm willing to bet that Windows 10 or 11 would have zero trouble running some random version of Quicken from 2002. Most PC games from that era are still easily runnable without too much hassle and those have way more complexity and weird crap to deal with.

Linux might be doable too if it doesn't have a bunch of shared libraries or if you at least know what versions it needs.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#337

Post by Kinrany » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 4:11 PM UTC

julianlam wrote: post #225

ekianjo wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I pay for the thing it allows me to do Why can't software ever be "finished" or "sufficient" to meet your needs? I don't see the point of having software is updated day after day, month after month, if I am not interested in the new features they bring.

Security vulnerabilities are regularly found in many softwares (both online and offline), so that's one reason to upgrade.

Proprietary software should come with a warranty that covers security vulnerabilities for N years.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#338

Post by closewith » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

fiprofessor wrote: post #320

closewith wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's helpful to consider a physical product analogy: imagine the company sold a cassette player instead. Now, let's say that someone designs a malicious tape that is lined with noxious chemicals, which when played in the cassette player causes it to catch on fire and explode. Would anyone regard the cassette maker as liable if this caused someone to die or a house to burn down? With respect, a malicious tape lined…

Should auto-manufacturers be liable for emissions produced by cars that have had their catalytic converters stolen? Should medicine manufacturers be liable if someone circumvents their tamper-proof seals and laces them with a poison? Should berry growers be liable if someone inserts needles into foods that are sold at supermarkets? All of these are crimes that are either widespread or famous from media scares that ha…

> Should auto-manufacturers be liable for emissions produced by cars that have had their catalytic converters stolen?

This is an interesting hypothetical, but I don't see the relevance.

> Should medicine manufacturers be liable if someone circumvents their tamper-proof seals and laces them with a poison?

Yes, and they are.

> Should berry growers be liable if someone inserts needles into foods that are sold at supermarkets?

The retailer should be, and is.

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#339

Post by kurupt213 » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

chrisandchris wrote: post #316

bdcravens wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like a subscription for your dorbell - just why? Servers (and the staff to maintain them) have an ongoing cost. Human labor is also a pesky subscription.

Sure, yes, I agree. But why design a thing that way? Is there really no other way? What if the company goes down, now you have a very expensive useless doorbell you even paid for a long time. And it's not like there's much new functionality one can put in a doorbell. I'm not sure the server really costs that much each month.

I remember reading here that a smarthome company has already failed, essentially turning the physical hardware into junk.

The default option should be self hosted, with premium subscription for those who choose

Re: Dear startups: I hate subscription services (2021)

#340

Post by XCSme » Sat, Jul 30, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

dzikimarian wrote: post #138

chunkyguy wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And who pays for the maintenance and bug fixes? Softwares can't sell like hardwares. When you buy a toaster for example, after the warranty expires you pay for every time you take it out for repairing. With softwares customers expect a life time of warranty, bug fixes and improvements.

I will gladly pay for the new version, when they amount to something I care about. Most of them isn't worth it - I would rather accept some minor bugs. Jetbrains has very good model in that regard. Hope they will not ruin it (new pricing for self hosted Spaces is bit concerning).

The problem with software is that even though the program itself doesn't change, the OS and hardware that it runs on often changes and customers expect to be able to use the same app on new hardware too. This requires a continuous maintenance work from the developer side. So, it's often not only "minor bugs" but major bugs introduced by hardware or API changes.