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Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

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Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#91

Post by sudosysgen »

baldisbasics wrote: post #79
gcr wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's common folk knowledge in my trans community that HRT often stops or in some cases partially reverse hair loss. See [1] for a case study, for example. Testosterone is correlated with hair loss and I could see how increasing T would worsen it, but blocking testosterone and increasing estrogen does have the opposite effect. 1: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5367483/

I'm going off of what the cancer doc has told various family members, especially that they're hesitant to use hormone therapy for cancer patients due to the wide amount of negative consequences that come from getting your hormones out of whack.

Of course, such treatment has many side effects. It's just that hair loss isn't a side effect of estrogen that's common enough that everyone in a town would suffer it. In all likelihood some other cause or contaminant led to this.

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#92

Post by jvanderbot »

baldisbasics wrote: post #38

I swear, everyone in my part of the US had massive hair shedding around 2018 or so (man and woman, young and old). We speculated at the time that maybe something in the water supply was causing everyone to lose hair in clumps, and by golly this appears to match with our pet theories.

Confirm. Had massive hair loss in 2018, up to half my head was bald, the back and sides included. I've been fighting it ever since, with regular injections of steroids required to stop the loss.

I was in upper midwest US, Eastern seaboard, and Los Angeles at various times that year.

But I don't see how this connects to the article.

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#93

Post by stevehawk »

rayiner wrote: post #82
marricks wrote: post #8

I'm concerned this is making numbers here because of fear mongers so I want to run the numbers a bit to > The top 10 countries ranked in the order of high to low average EE2 concentration in surface water, were Vietnam, Cambodia, China, Laos, Brazil, Argentina, Kuwait, Thailand, Indonesia and Portugal, with the respective mean concentrations of 27.7, 22.1, 21.5, 21.1, 13.6, 9.6, 9.5, 8.8, 7.6 and 6.6 ng/L Going by Wi…

> I bring this up because of the right wing fear of the "feminization of men." > Where the right wing ideology on this is strongest (US perhaps?) I can’t imagine the confusion that would lead someone to conclude that “feminization of men” is a “right wing fear” that is perhaps “strongest” in the US? The US has among the loosest gender norms of any place in the world, including a number of European countries. In the o…

they probably assume it because Republicans say it out loud.

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#94

Post by baldisbasics »

zackmorris wrote: post #84
baldisbasics wrote: post #38

I swear, everyone in my part of the US had massive hair shedding around 2018 or so (man and woman, young and old). We speculated at the time that maybe something in the water supply was causing everyone to lose hair in clumps, and by golly this appears to match with our pet theories.

That's interesting, which part of the US is it, and does anyone have hard evidence of that trend? Only one datapoint, but: the outer half of my eyebrows fell out in 2018 just before my digestive issues flared up and I burned out in the spring of 2019. I wondered if maybe radiation from Fukushima affected my thyroid, since radiation levels in southern Idaho were 80 times normal before they quit reporting them. I've si…

It was everyone I know in Indiana and South Carolina, so it appears to have been wide spread. Some were spared, but this was notably pre-COVID. I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't directly the chemical mentioned in this study, but a multifactor issue. My key point is that out hunch was "what could be leaking into the water or food supply to cause this?" I always leaned more toward the microplastic theory, but that brings us back to endocrine disruption yet again. As for hard evidence, I'm afraid my accounts are colloquial at the moment, but the increase of hairloss products aimed at young men (ie Keeps) should point a curious mind in the right direction.

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#95

Post by lazzlazzlazz »

marricks wrote: post #23

Apparently everyone is downvoting everything they can because this is a sensitive topic. I'd just like to call out, where feminization is a major concern (US, maybe Europe), there is less than 1ng/L of this compound in water, see elsewhere on this thread for the graphic. The lowest dose of EE2 for trans-women is 2mg a day orally. That means whatever the dosage is in the US it's less than 1/10th* of what trans folk fi…

If just drinking water gives you 10% of the dose that a trans person would seek medically, that seems like an incredibly high amount. Your post seems to reinforce concerns, not dissolve them.

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#96

Post by Sunspark »

lazide wrote: post #43
__s wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does feminizing mean?

To expand on the Wikipedia article of a peer comment: - feminine features such as gynocomastia (used to be very rare, now quite common) - decrease in sperm counts across the male population, which has been well documented. - statistically significant decreases in traditionally male ‘problems’ (violent crime being one obvious one), but also aggressiveness in general. Well documented, but there are many possible causes…

My personal feeling on the decreases in violence and crime that it is very plausibly a lagging indicator showing the effect of the phase-out of leaded gasoline, paint, etc.

It is well documented that people with lead exposure during their developmental period have problems including more predisposition to violence and crime.

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#97

Post by the_only_law »

rayiner wrote: post #82
marricks wrote: post #8

I'm concerned this is making numbers here because of fear mongers so I want to run the numbers a bit to > The top 10 countries ranked in the order of high to low average EE2 concentration in surface water, were Vietnam, Cambodia, China, Laos, Brazil, Argentina, Kuwait, Thailand, Indonesia and Portugal, with the respective mean concentrations of 27.7, 22.1, 21.5, 21.1, 13.6, 9.6, 9.5, 8.8, 7.6 and 6.6 ng/L Going by Wi…

> I bring this up because of the right wing fear of the "feminization of men." > Where the right wing ideology on this is strongest (US perhaps?) I can’t imagine the confusion that would lead someone to conclude that “feminization of men” is a “right wing fear” that is perhaps “strongest” in the US? The US has among the loosest gender norms of any place in the world, including a number of European countries. In the o…

> In the other countries you mentioned, like China, Kuwait, etc., traditional gender norms aren’t even “right wing”—because that would imply they’re even up for debate:

Yet another reason why left/right dichotomy is useless.

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#98

Post by [deleted] »

elil17 wrote: post #63
swayvil wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Possibly - although it still doesn’t explain FTMs. “Society got more accepting” seems like a much simpler theory that explains the rise in trans people. Doesn’t mean environmental estrogen isn’t a health risk, though.

[deleted]

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#99

Post by kelseyfrog »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #80
kelseyfrog wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

If lead pollution made people kinder, it feels to me like lead pollution would still be a bad thing. While I got the same impression as you from that comment, HN's guidelines[0] say: > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Right. I was using

> Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine.

Re: Review of 17α-ethynylestradiol in water across 32 countries: Estrogenic effects

#100

Post by rayiner »

stevehawk wrote: post #93
rayiner wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I bring this up because of the right wing fear of the "feminization of men." > Where the right wing ideology on this is strongest (US perhaps?) I can’t imagine the confusion that would lead someone to conclude that “feminization of men” is a “right wing fear” that is perhaps “strongest” in the US? The US has among the loosest gender norms of any place in the world, including a number of European countries. In the o…

they probably assume it because Republicans say it out loud.

Only because what you would call a “Republican take” on gender norms in the US is “common knowledge” nearly everywhere in Asia or Africa. You should hear my mom complain how my dad “doesn’t do man’s work, just laptop.” And she qualifies as a feminist in Bangladesh!
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