Live data from Hacker News

I miss the programmable web (2021)

matt-rickard.com

71–80 of 180 posts

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#71

Writing userscripts and CSS filters becomes more tedious each few years, especially mucking with dynamic DOM and complex frameworks websites tend to use now. WASM and obfuscated/minified javascript made "programmable web" impossible in practice.

Agreed, except MutationObserver has made dealing with DOM modifications much easier.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#72

I miss the "immediate web". Being able to work on simple things without feeling like they are useless, pointless or perceptibly outdated. Now it's install node, install git, install npm, install a gazillion packages, run localhost then hope everything works. Build command, clean command, eject commands, deploy command, pre processors, post processers, documentations full of so much jargon that i feel burnt out lookin…

For frontend stuff, moving away from the JavaScript ecosystem to C# with blazor has really improved my motivation.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#73
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do browsers enforce CSP against bookmarklets and user scripts, though?

Naive users can be convinced to run random code. Go to discord.com (no need for account) and open browser console. You will see > Hold Up! > If someone told you to copy/paste something here you have an 11/10 chance you're being scammed. > Pasting anything in here could give attackers access to your Discord account. presumably they added it after it kept happening. And likely the same things happens when random user c…

I can see something like that as a separate red box above the actual console in opera and firefox, regardless of the current site. Annoys me as hell, cause there is no way(?) to turn it off.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#74

Is it because in the beginning of the web the percent of tech users was much higher than now and not revenue optimized?

Partly, but also because engineers had more powers.

Now decisions are taken by managers or PO who don't care (or even know) about programmability, open standards, etc.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#75

I miss the "immediate web". Being able to work on simple things without feeling like they are useless, pointless or perceptibly outdated. Now it's install node, install git, install npm, install a gazillion packages, run localhost then hope everything works. Build command, clean command, eject commands, deploy command, pre processors, post processers, documentations full of so much jargon that i feel burnt out lookin…

This was why I created https://webcode.run the elimination of all tooling and a fast development loop even for backend

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#76

I miss the "immediate web". Being able to work on simple things without feeling like they are useless, pointless or perceptibly outdated. Now it's install node, install git, install npm, install a gazillion packages, run localhost then hope everything works. Build command, clean command, eject commands, deploy command, pre processors, post processers, documentations full of so much jargon that i feel burnt out lookin…

If you build web pages without the whole JS frameworks and Node circus, they are pretty durable. Those helpers were invented because people started to build empires (complex applications) on sand (the web), so they are pretty useful for larger projects, but simple websites can still be easily built with plain HTML/CSS/JS.

yeah but there is no value, personally in building projects like that anymore, you can not use them in your portfolio or to progress your career - i was going to build a personal site, but realised it would probably act as more of a hindrance to me, because potential clients/employers would see that it was not using latest new js fad.

if it was up to me i would never touch those things, but that's what the market has become.

i even resisted learning typescript for so many years, because i loathe the idea of learning a language that needs to be converted to have correct syntax. same with jsx, i use it, but it feels horrible.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you build web pages without the whole JS frameworks and Node circus, they are pretty durable. Those helpers were invented because people started to build empires (complex applications) on sand (the web), so they are pretty useful for larger projects, but simple websites can still be easily built with plain HTML/CSS/JS.

yeah but there is no value, personally in building projects like that anymore, you can not use them in your portfolio or to progress your career - i was going to build a personal site, but realised it would probably act as more of a hindrance to me, because potential clients/employers would see that it was not using latest new js fad. if it was up to me i would never touch those things, but that's what the market has…

You think potential clients are digging in to the source code of your hypothetical personal website? You sound like you've identified a group of technologies as a personal enemy, and already don't use or want to use them. The most value you can deliver to a potential client when they visit your website, is in communicating concisely what you have and are capable of buiding for other people like them, not what you're capable of building for yourself as a vanity project

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#79

I miss the "immediate web". Being able to work on simple things without feeling like they are useless, pointless or perceptibly outdated. Now it's install node, install git, install npm, install a gazillion packages, run localhost then hope everything works. Build command, clean command, eject commands, deploy command, pre processors, post processers, documentations full of so much jargon that i feel burnt out lookin…

You can still drag and drop a folder to the Netlify UI and it's published immediately. How you produce the static assets is up to you.

Of course, having to work with multiple devs on the same project adds lots of complexity to minimize risks and conflicts.

Re: I miss the programmable web (2021)

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just how technology progresses? Things start off as amateur pursuits but once a field becomes profiting making then professionals move in and industrialise things.

This is a good response to the vast majority of curmudgeonly HN posts tbf

Idk "it is what it is" doesn't make an interesting conversation OTOH, does it?
Post reply on HN