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David Foster Wallace’s final attempt to make art moral

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Re: David Foster Wallace’s final attempt to make art moral

#51

Post by justsocrateasin »

themisto wrote: post #2

I haven't read any books by David Foster Wallace, though every time he comes up I feel obliged to share a fantastic speech of his about finding joy in the monotony of life. I heard it years ago and it's always stuck with me. Video[1], transcript[2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI [2] https://jamesclear.com/great-speeches/this-is-water-by-david...

I have a calendar reminder to read this speech every 3 months. It's one of the few reminders that I actually listen to and don't just ignore.

Re: David Foster Wallace’s final attempt to make art moral

#52

Post by jquaint »

Arubis wrote: post #8

I wish I could still love DFW's work the way I used to, but it's colored by [allegations of significant relational abuse]( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Foster_Wallace#Personal_... ).

Yeah I totally agree. It doesn't invalidate his work but it adds quite an ick factor for sure.

Re: David Foster Wallace’s final attempt to make art moral

#53

Post by nemo44x »

ethanbond wrote: post #35
zemvpferreira wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great speech but this is the first I hear it interpreted as an ode to monotony. I've always thought of it as an essay on the value of questioning our default way of thinking in the day-to-day, on the implicit biases we carry with us into the world and how they can trap us in loneliness. Not ashamed to say I've cried more than once listening to it. It's a lifesaver.

The Pale King, his last novel (unfinished at the time of his death) is a really gorgeous elaboration on the same topics as This Is Water. It is not so much about rejecting the day to day monotony of the modern world, but rejecting the default reaction to the monotony of the modern world. We have complete control over our reaction, and almost none over the reality. One line I’ll paraphrase that sticks with me still: “…

It's a great way to approach life in general. There's many things we have to do that we don't want to. Chores, etc. Like cutting the lawn.

One approach can be to hate it and cut it super short and not take care of it and it slowly turns into a weed patch and something you resent even more. But you still have to get out there and cut it.

Another approach is to learn about cultivation and care and take pride in it and think of the benefits like exercise and having a lawn you take pride in. You also open up the option to learn a lot of things.

So now something that has to be done isn't something you dread because you were determined to find something good in it.

If you can't find any way to take this approach with something then you have to make it not exist (don't have a lawn) or outsource it (pay landscaping company to cut it).

Re: David Foster Wallace’s final attempt to make art moral

#54

Post by nemo44x »

rintakumpu wrote: post #9
npilk wrote: post #3

Though unfinished, I highly recommend the Pale King. It's not as consistently great as some of DFW's other works, but the highs are as high as anything else he wrote and IMO it's a little more accessible than Infinite Jest. (For a new reader, I would start with some of his essays, e.g. Consider the Lobster: http://www.columbia.edu/~col8/lobsterarticle.pdf )

The first time I read Infinite Jest I was expecting something as inaccessible as Ulysses or Gravity’s Rainbow but ended up finding the book pretty readable and a total delight. And but so I would highly recommend it, just take the off-beat sci-fi setting at face value and skip the footnotes if you feel like you want to focus on the story. You can always return to those later.

I found Gravity's Rainbow more accessible and maybe that's because Infinite Jest was clearly inspired by it. They're both very similar in that you just have to power through the first 150-200 pages and then somehow everything starts making sense.

Re: David Foster Wallace’s final attempt to make art moral

#55

Post by pcarolan »

themisto wrote: post #2

I haven't read any books by David Foster Wallace, though every time he comes up I feel obliged to share a fantastic speech of his about finding joy in the monotony of life. I heard it years ago and it's always stuck with me. Video[1], transcript[2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI [2] https://jamesclear.com/great-speeches/this-is-water-by-david...

Infinite Jest is feeling more prescient every day ( the titular theme is about media addiction ). Worth the steep climb.

Re: David Foster Wallace’s final attempt to make art moral

#56

Post by Invictus0 »

Arubis wrote: post #8

I wish I could still love DFW's work the way I used to, but it's colored by [allegations of significant relational abuse]( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Foster_Wallace#Personal_... ).

I don't get how people can care about things like this. The American Constitution was written by slaveowners, and MLK cheated on his wife. It doesn't make the Constitution worthless nor does it make the I have a Dream speech a fraud. Never meet your heroes.

Re: David Foster Wallace’s final attempt to make art moral

#57

Post by nemo44x »

ethanbond wrote: post #39
rockostrich wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I don't really get the take that it's inaccessible. The footnotes are sometimes annoying, but usually they're hilarious. I haven't read it in ~10 years but I think it's even more relevant, poignant, and hilarious today as it was then since we're just seeing more and more of his predictions about consumerism and self-image come to life.

Predicting the rise of video calling and the backlash against having to look like you’re paying attention and of being prettied up, solved by the face filters then people completely replacing themselves with virtual avatars? Incredibly prescient.

"Audio-only phone conversations allowed you to presume that the person on the other end was paying complete attention to you while also permitting you not to have to pay anything even close to complete attention to her"

Re: David Foster Wallace’s final attempt to make art moral

#58

Post by jrm4 »

frostburg wrote: post #47
jrm4 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I want to discuss a major thing in the book, but it's really spoilery. I don't know if hacker news has a thing for that? I'll ROT-13 it and if anyone wants to respond please do. Again, you shouldn't try to read this if you haven't read the book and dont want to be spoiled: V'ir arire frra guvf zragvbarq naljurer -- ohg vg frrzf gb zr gung gur npghny vasvavgr wrfg va gur obbx, nxn gur ivqrb gung ulcabgvmrf rirel…

Vg'f infgyl zber cbjreshy guna gung, ng yrnfg nccneragyl, ohg bar pbhyq frr n cnenyyry. Vs V erzrzore pbeerpgyl vg qbrfa'g "jbex" ba crbcyr gung xarj Wbryyr crefbanyyl naq vg unf fbzr xvaq bs pbaarpgvba gb gur zlfgrevbhf qeht QZM, gbb.

Bs pbhefr. Ohg V'ir whfg orra fgehpx ol ubj 'nfze' qvqa'g ernyyl rkvfg nf n guvat ng gur gvzr naq V guvax vs gur obbx unq pbzr bhg gbqnl vg jbhyq or boivbhf gung guvf vf jung vg jnf irel zhpu yvxr vs abg vqragvpny gb, naq ntnva -- fb sne V yvgrenyyl unir frra ab bar znxr gung pbaarpgvba. V whfg svaq gung cneg ernyyl fgenatr.

Re: David Foster Wallace’s final attempt to make art moral

#59

Post by nemo44x »

jbmny wrote: post #30
boucher wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot imagine reading this book and skipping the footnotes.

I've been roughly halfway through the book for years, so take this for what it's worth, but if they were actually footnotes I might have read them. Instead they are endnotes , meaning you have to pick up a solid pound of book and flip to the end each time you encounter one. And there are many. I just found that dehumanizing. Lol

Cut the book in half, literally. Or even just cut the footnotes out and make them a separate book.

Re: David Foster Wallace’s final attempt to make art moral

#60

Post by nemo44x »

jrm4 wrote: post #44
rintakumpu wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first time I read Infinite Jest I was expecting something as inaccessible as Ulysses or Gravity’s Rainbow but ended up finding the book pretty readable and a total delight. And but so I would highly recommend it, just take the off-beat sci-fi setting at face value and skip the footnotes if you feel like you want to focus on the story. You can always return to those later.

Okay, I want to discuss a major thing in the book, but it's really spoilery. I don't know if hacker news has a thing for that? I'll ROT-13 it and if anyone wants to respond please do. Again, you shouldn't try to read this if you haven't read the book and dont want to be spoiled: V'ir arire frra guvf zragvbarq naljurer -- ohg vg frrzf gb zr gung gur npghny vasvavgr wrfg va gur obbx, nxn gur ivqrb gung ulcabgvmrf rirel…

Vg'f GvxGbx.
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