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How far can you go by train in 5h?

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Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? The great advantage of high speed rail is that with intermediate stops along the route you can service smaller cities which previously, or as you just did, would be considered flyover country. Thus making the value of the system greater than just the end terminuses. Just looking at the towns between Portland and Sacramento Salem, Eugene and Medford exist. Neither would themselves ever be valuable enough for…

Because not enough people live along the way. Sure you an build track and run trains, but 5 hours on a train is about the time where flying is enough faster that people will fly instead of taking the train. Less than 5 hours train competes well (stations are closer to you, and no long security lines), but after that airplanes are enough faster that few people would use a train. That means only a small number of peopl…

Well with Maglev, Portland to San Francisco could make sense via Sacramento. You wouldn’t want to do it on the coast because of the mountains, and there’s at least Redding and Ashland and a couple of other places in-between.

At 500 km/h (310 mph) you could feasibly do Sacramento to Portland in under two hours. The less straightforward question is how much of the metro area do you serve around those two cities, and do you connect that line directly to San Francisco or do you run a separate line to Sacramento via the Delta? Do you go a sort if L-shape around Stockton first? The politics of this could push travel time up, but at 500 km/h you can cover a lot of ground, much of it fairly empty.

So a hypothetical Best Coast system would connect Vancouver, BC to Portland, Portland to Sacramento, Sacramento to Reno, Reno to Las Vegas, Sacramento to LA, San Francisco to Sacramento via Stockton, San Francisco to LA, LA to Tijuana via San Diego, LA to Las Vegas, LA to El Paso via Phoenix, Phoenix to St. George, Las Vegas to Salt Lake City via St. George, San Diego to El Paso via Tucson & Mexicali and now you’re in Texas where options include El Paso to New Orleans via either Austin & Houston or San Antonio & Houston, Brownsville to McAllen, Brownsville to Houston via Corpus Christi, Corpus Christi to San Antonio, Houston to Dallas, Dallas to Oklahoma City and I’m probably missing some, but you have the workings of a Gulf Coast constellation anchored by Texas on one end and Florida on the other.

Thing is, I’ve worked this all out on paper too, including a Northeast, Southeast and Midwest map that looked much like one that someone linked to up the thread. Problem is, our choice of infrastructure is downstream from our cultural preferences which in turn are shaped by the infrastructure our ancestors built in the decades prior.

El Paso is about 725 miles away from San Diego according to Siri, so with the best trains in the world you could be inside the Texas rail constellation I briefly outlined above in about 2-3 hours which in turn could serve as the basis for a Gulf Coast constellation connecting Florida and the Southeast connecting to the Midwest and the Northeast and then to Canada.

It’s not built though because people just fly instead. We worked out how to get cheap air travel long before we figured out super-fast transcontinental rail travel that probably doesn’t make sense coast to coast but if it already existed, probably would make sense going coast to middle and middle to middle and would just happen to connect the coasts. Or you could just fly, which is what we do, and since that already exists and is even faster than rail travel, metro areas can figure out how their own inter-urban rail systems that are slow and local where it makes sense to build them and just try to make sure the airport is connected too. I like trains, but not so much that I’m willing to toss hundreds of billions of public money into some kind of “national rail system” whatever form it took for whatever prestige it might bring. Jumbo jets are cool too.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#263
It would be interesting to see this for the US.

You might be able to get from New York City to Boston within 5 hours. If you're leaving from Fargo, though, it would be hard to make it into neighboring Montana.

Our best case for taking a coast-to-coast train is 72 hours, but I've never seen a long Amtrak train arrive on time.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#264
post #91

As a European it boggles my mind seeing how trains are basically non-existent in the USA (just look at Houston station), given how dominant the whole "Wild West" railroad rush is in everybody's immagination. Railroads are super ubiquitous here, and we've to work with a pretty hostile terrain - Italy has lots of mountains, hills, rivers, and yet has one of the best networks in the world. Most of the USA are basically…

I'm not convinced high speed rail would ever work in the US due to how entrenched the car culture is, regardless of the terrain. In Europe with we have spoke-and-hub railways - want to get into London? There's almost certainly a local station near you in the suburbs. Then jump on the Eurostar to Paris. Get to Paris, and then get a local line back out to wherever you want to go. Right now, it would have to be airport…

Travel between countries in Europe is improving every year too. Next week I'll be traveling from Bordeaux to Berlin (over 1,600km) - it's faster than the car (16 hours by car vs 12 hours by train), and cheaper than flying, in the summer at least (150 euro by train, vs 300 euro by plane - booking 6 weeks before).

That will improve next year too with the direct Paris Berlin train that should only take 7 hours.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#265

This is very timely. In September I will have four days of down time with my wife in Paris. We want to get out of town but don't know where. This gives us some options. If anybody here has suggestions where we can spend a few days taking in non-Parisian France, let me know.

I really liked Strasbourg. France meets Germany in a compact historical center, 2hrs each way from Paris on the TGV. Just go when the EU government is not meeting there, because for 4 days a month, they all have to pack up from Brussels and move to Strasbourg. Reims and the Champagne region are on the TGV to Strasbourg as well, making that an easy day trip from Paris.

There are also the night trains (Intercities de Nuit), which go from Paris to some destinations at the periphery of France that are way too long for a normal day trip. It is usually 4 or 6 bunks in a room, but you can pay extra to book the entire room for the two of you. Go to sleep in Paris and wake up 12 hours later in Nice on the Med coast, Briancon (ski resort town in the Alps, great in Summer too), or any of the medieval towns in the Pyrenees near Spain (Carcassonne, Narbonne, Perpignan)

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Levy addresses this, and agrees with you: https://pedestrianobservations.com/2021/03/22/high-speed-rai... Basically, Amtrak started out with the existing rail network, which is going to be oriented to early-20th-century population centers, and so New Orleans is well-served by Amtrak standards. But a modern network in the South would be oriented more towards those parts of the South that have grown - Texas and the Pie…

Levy is wrong. There, I said it. American growth of the last 80 years is incompatible with the future of the world. You won't save a sprawly mess by putting a high speed rail station in the center of it. If it was an important city before the age of the automobile, it has a chance. Put the "future" rail network in the cities that have a future. Point number two, and probably even more important than the first, is the…

That's a good point. On the other hand, the future of the world probably includes sea level rise so New Orleans may not have much of a future.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure they bring some value but my understanding is they don't bring enough value. But I could be wrong!

Here's a good video on one method of calculating what the sum of the smaller individual parts would be. This is for the north east corridor but the same thinking applies to any rail project. It seems like about a million people live there, not nearly enough individually, and trains would likely alternate at which locations they stop to bring the total travel time between the larger areas down. Might be hindered by th…

Thanks for the link! Will watch later.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've been trying to implement passport control before boarding the train between NYC and Montreal for a while, but nothing seems to have come of it. It was an Obama-era priority. I haven't taken that train in many years, but they basically stop the train at the border and immigration agents board and check everyone's passport. It's scheduled to take 2 hours. Really stupid. It's a 45 minute flight, and you go throu…

Vancouver’s station does that: preclearance and then sit in a sequestered cage to get on the train. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Central_Station There are some disadvantages, such as not being able to pickup anymore passengers until crossing the border. Probably a non-issue with Vancouver close to the border.

What about that piece of the US that's isolated from the rest, quite close to Vancouver I think, Fort something attached to the South of BC, accessible only through it. Do you have to go through something like that twice, or can you go between it and the main body of the US more easily (without stops perhaps)?

Or (facepalm, more obviously) Alaska for that matter?

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#269
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metro/LIRR works fine, if you can tune out the aesthetics.

And the schedules. Tokyo train schedule slippage is measured in seconds.

I've found many Newyorkers will respond to any negative comparison of the NYC subways to other cities with a retort of "but we have 24/7 service and they don't".

I kind of feel that 24/7 service is actually one factor in why the NYC subways have so many problems - both in terms of logistics and aesthetics.

Re: How far can you go by train in 5h?

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Levy is wrong. There, I said it. American growth of the last 80 years is incompatible with the future of the world. You won't save a sprawly mess by putting a high speed rail station in the center of it. If it was an important city before the age of the automobile, it has a chance. Put the "future" rail network in the cities that have a future. Point number two, and probably even more important than the first, is the…

That's a good point. On the other hand, the future of the world probably includes sea level rise so New Orleans may not have much of a future.

And I fully accept that point :)

But as long as it exists, New Orleans means something to America.

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