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200TB SSDs could come soon thanks to Micron's new chip

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Re: 200TB SSDs could come soon thanks to Micron's new chip

#31

Post by didgetmaster »

layer8 wrote: post #23
didgetmaster wrote: post #12

Capacity is not the major problem. It is the $/TB price points. SSDs are still 5x more expensive than HDD for bulk storage. It doesn't matter if you can buy a 200TB SSD if it is 200x more expensive than a 1TB SSD. HAMR technology is going to give us much bigger HDD. If I can buy a 50TB HDD or a 50TB SSD in a couple years, which one will I buy if the SSD is 5x more expensive? SSDs make total sense for storing the file…

> which one will I buy if the SSD is 5x more expensive SSD, because silence and random-access performance.

You could say the same thing about CPUs. Do you buy the $400 CPU that has good performance? Or do you splurge for the top of the line Threadripper that costs a few thousand? It is always a trade-off between price and performance. If the situation is right and your job justifies saving a few minutes for lots of money, then go for it.

If I needed a ton of disk space and I could buy a 50TB HDD for $1000 or a 50TB SSD for $5000 right now, I would opt for the HDD. But that is just me.

Re: 200TB SSDs could come soon thanks to Micron's new chip

#32

Post by stjohnswarts »

layer8 wrote: post #23
didgetmaster wrote: post #12

Capacity is not the major problem. It is the $/TB price points. SSDs are still 5x more expensive than HDD for bulk storage. It doesn't matter if you can buy a 200TB SSD if it is 200x more expensive than a 1TB SSD. HAMR technology is going to give us much bigger HDD. If I can buy a 50TB HDD or a 50TB SSD in a couple years, which one will I buy if the SSD is 5x more expensive? SSDs make total sense for storing the file…

> which one will I buy if the SSD is 5x more expensive SSD, because silence and random-access performance.

resilience too, especially if you're just mostly storing the data and not overwriting it constantly which is the actual death of SSDs whereas it's is mechanical wear with HDDs

Re: 200TB SSDs could come soon thanks to Micron's new chip

#33

Post by ravi-delia »

layer8 wrote: post #23
didgetmaster wrote: post #12

Capacity is not the major problem. It is the $/TB price points. SSDs are still 5x more expensive than HDD for bulk storage. It doesn't matter if you can buy a 200TB SSD if it is 200x more expensive than a 1TB SSD. HAMR technology is going to give us much bigger HDD. If I can buy a 50TB HDD or a 50TB SSD in a couple years, which one will I buy if the SSD is 5x more expensive? SSDs make total sense for storing the file…

> which one will I buy if the SSD is 5x more expensive SSD, because silence and random-access performance.

For 50Tb? I'm not one to question anyone's data hoarding, but I just can't imagine needing silence or random access on 50Tb, at least not enough to justify 5x prices. By all means, give me 5Tb in my laptop at lightning speed, I'll pay through the nose for it. But in bulk? I can't imagine wanting to spend thousands when hundreds will do.

Re: 200TB SSDs could come soon thanks to Micron's new chip

#34

Post by NikolaNovak »

postalrat wrote: post #29
NikolaNovak wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the op, but I've just switched away from spinning disks recently. Kinda. I have a NAS of 4x 8TB WD Red Pro; and a a desktop with 4x1 TB of nvME and 1TB of (grandfathered) SATA SSD. For batch photo processing (i.e. lightroom) spinning disk is really sub-optimal. I'd rather have a 256GB or 512GB nvme and process batch by batch (and then offload to NAS), then a 8TB 7200 RPM HDD with all my photos. To OPs point - dep…

I've heard but don't know if its true that SSD storage can constantly suffer data corruption if its not powered. It needs power to keep refreshing stored data. Something that maybe spinning disks don't suffer from.

I don't believe SSD loses data over arbitrarily short periods of time such as days/weeks.

On the other hand, I would not trust either medium over extended period of time (years) personally - either dump to tape/optical, or keep making copies :).

Either way, I currently do not have a use case where either my SSDs or HDDs would be off for year or more.

(I do have a set of "off site" HDDs with my family which do stay unpowered for months before being exchanged)

Re: 200TB SSDs could come soon thanks to Micron's new chip

#35

Post by LionTamer »

cglan wrote: post #6

I will say, SSD pricing is pretty frustrating. There's a lot of focus on faster and faster nvme that's barely noticeable while actual capacity has really stagnated at around 2-4tb. As someone who is very into photography, it takes not very long to fill 2tb of space. If I could buy a cheap 16tb ssd with fast reads and slow writes I'd be a happy camper but it doesn't exist unless I want to buy spinning disks (I don't)

Silly question - what makes you dislike buying four 4tb SSDs compared to buying one 16tb SSD? I could see it being less portable to have multiple drives, but I would presume that 16 TB isn’t really something that needs to be brought around portably unless you’re going somewhere for extended period of time without internet (preventing the use of a NAS/cloud storage). Multiple SSDs also allows the use of RAID for increasing speed and/or susceptibility of failure.

Re: 200TB SSDs could come soon thanks to Micron's new chip

#36

Post by murkt »

alyandon wrote: post #18
murkt wrote: post #10

> Micron has begun production of the first 232-layer NAND chip in sufficient volume to feed storage partners. How do they manufacture this monster?

Magic (at least as far as I'm concerned). I would love to see an updated version of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGFhc8R_uO4

I have basic understanding of a generic process. I mean specifically 200+ layers. Do they “just” deposit layer after layer after layer, 200-something times?

Re: 200TB SSDs could come soon thanks to Micron's new chip

#37

Post by hef19898 »

muhammadusman wrote: post #16
cglan wrote: post #6

I will say, SSD pricing is pretty frustrating. There's a lot of focus on faster and faster nvme that's barely noticeable while actual capacity has really stagnated at around 2-4tb. As someone who is very into photography, it takes not very long to fill 2tb of space. If I could buy a cheap 16tb ssd with fast reads and slow writes I'd be a happy camper but it doesn't exist unless I want to buy spinning disks (I don't)

I'm curious, do you not buy spinning disks due to the risk of failure?

Not OP, but for me the main reason would be travel. A SSD is much easier to carry as an external drive together with a laptop.

Re: 200TB SSDs could come soon thanks to Micron's new chip

#38

Post by Beached »

ravi-delia wrote: post #33
layer8 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which one will I buy if the SSD is 5x more expensive SSD, because silence and random-access performance.

For 50Tb? I'm not one to question anyone's data hoarding, but I just can't imagine needing silence or random access on 50Tb, at least not enough to justify 5x prices. By all means, give me 5Tb in my laptop at lightning speed, I'll pay through the nose for it. But in bulk? I can't imagine wanting to spend thousands when hundreds will do.

price isn't the only thing to consider. speed and density matter too. if I have 1pb of storage across 10 servers on hdds, the networking cost will be much higher than 1pb across 2 servers on ssds, and will the retrieval times. when speed and density are considering factors, ssds make sense.

when I needed 1.2pb of data fully searchable with retrieval times under 3s (across the entire data set, or huge portions.like half or quarter of the data), hdd wasn't even on the table.

but we did use hdd for off-site backups of the data in case we hit a huge shtf scenario.

Re: 200TB SSDs could come soon thanks to Micron's new chip

#39

Post by siscia »

cglan wrote: post #6

I will say, SSD pricing is pretty frustrating. There's a lot of focus on faster and faster nvme that's barely noticeable while actual capacity has really stagnated at around 2-4tb. As someone who is very into photography, it takes not very long to fill 2tb of space. If I could buy a cheap 16tb ssd with fast reads and slow writes I'd be a happy camper but it doesn't exist unless I want to buy spinning disks (I don't)

Why you need SSD for photography? An HD seems a better solution to be honest, isn't?

Opening a single picture is a sequential operation, as well as dumping pictures from camera to disk.

Am I missing something obvious?

Re: 200TB SSDs could come soon thanks to Micron's new chip

#40

Post by Beached »

LionTamer wrote: post #35
cglan wrote: post #6

I will say, SSD pricing is pretty frustrating. There's a lot of focus on faster and faster nvme that's barely noticeable while actual capacity has really stagnated at around 2-4tb. As someone who is very into photography, it takes not very long to fill 2tb of space. If I could buy a cheap 16tb ssd with fast reads and slow writes I'd be a happy camper but it doesn't exist unless I want to buy spinning disks (I don't)

Silly question - what makes you dislike buying four 4tb SSDs compared to buying one 16tb SSD? I could see it being less portable to have multiple drives, but I would presume that 16 TB isn’t really something that needs to be brought around portably unless you’re going somewhere for extended period of time without internet (preventing the use of a NAS/cloud storage). Multiple SSDs also allows the use of RAID for incre…

if you are moving that data around, nas/cloud storage can be super frustrating. copying 16tb of data over usb3/c is much faster than 100mbps or 200mbps internet.
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