81–90 of 98 posts
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There are plenty of web dev work around and you don't need 10+ years of experience to do it.
Do you understand that is just intern-level work?
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TIL that there are only interns and people with 10+ years of experience.
TIL I can become a surgeon with a 3 months bootcamp
I don't have formal CS education, but I've been working as a developer for 25 years. In the firm I've been in that last 15 years, only developers with 10+ years of experience actually make a difference. Others are either still learning, or just doing menial work. It makes me a bit sad this trend of "become a developer in 3 months". It's just a dream.
I have a similar background, and my initial path into this job in the late 90s was definitely "become a developer in 6 months" using only books on HTML and Perl (and a pirate copy of Photoshop), so I can easily believe with instruction one can become a developer in 3. There's a lot I couldn't do, of course, and there will be a lot that bootcamp devs can't do. But it's a start, a foot in the door. And it's also a kick…
Just as an example, let me tell you that we currently have a (self-taught) intern which is years ahead of two developers from bootcamps which have been working with us for over a year.
Getting a job position doesn't automatically mean you are suited for that job, or that you're good at it.
And while there are good dev bootcamps, getting out of one and finding a job, doesn't make you a developer (or an "engineer" either, which in my country is a regulated title)
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Because you can't really teach yourself civil engineering. A degree is more or less mandatory so all civil engineers have at least 3 years of learning behind them. There's no qualification required to become a "software engineer", so you can absolutely become one (maybe not a very good one) in 3 months.
I disagree. There are things that should be required for a software engineer to know. Queueing theory comes to mind
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I disagree. There are things that should be required for a software engineer to know. Queueing theory comes to mind
Queueing theory is a weirdly niche thing to require. I guess almost nobody is a software engineer according to you!
If you have to program ANYTHING that serves requests and has a limited buffer you enter the domain of queueing theory.
Processing internet packets? Queueing theory.
Developing a distributed system? Queueing theory.
Designing software to manage a call center? Queueing theory.
Shipments? Ticketing? Payments? A myriad of other things? Queueing theory.
Fun fact, while posting this reply HN redirected my to a page "Sorry we're not able to serve your request this quickly". Guess what would have helped?
Queueing theory.
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I disagree. There are things that should be required for a software engineer to know. Queueing theory comes to mind
I'd wager any problem involving queuing theory could be googled/researched in under a day. Hard to call it a requirement when you can just.. look it up when you need it.
"How I successfully became a civil engineer in 3 months" Brrrrr. Why the hell this is allowed when talking about software is beyond me.
Because the term [junior/senior] software engineer doesn't mean anything. If you have a laptop, congrats you're now a software engineer.
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I have a similar background, and my initial path into this job in the late 90s was definitely "become a developer in 6 months" using only books on HTML and Perl (and a pirate copy of Photoshop), so I can easily believe with instruction one can become a developer in 3. There's a lot I couldn't do, of course, and there will be a lot that bootcamp devs can't do. But it's a start, a foot in the door. And it's also a kick…
Ok, I probably was a bit too harsh in my judgement. Those "junior" devs are helping us a lot, and I was in that position for long, too. Just as an example, let me tell you that we currently have a (self-taught) intern which is years ahead of two developers from bootcamps which have been working with us for over a year. Getting a job position doesn't automatically mean you are suited for that job, or that you're good…
100% agree that getting a job doesn't mean you're good at it - but getting paid to do programming is the easiest way to keep learning. Maybe a good way to get people improving quicker could be to give them self-contained individual projects and allow them to get stuck and solve their own problems, I don't know? I do see devs spending days asking each other for help on stuff they could probably solve if they thought hard for an hour. Collaboration is good, sure, reinventing the wheel is bad, yes - but just diving in and wrestling with a problem is good practice and (eventually) fun.
I also won't call myself an Engineer for similar reasons, though an American company did give me that job title once.
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> If someone is hired as a software engineer and they refer to themselves as a software engineer, that’s their prerogative. No.
Language evolves. Shaking your fist at the term "software engineer" isn't going to roll back those changes. If my title is software engineer (it isn't, it's ML engineer), and that's what recruiters looking at my resume will expect for the kinds of jobs I'm qualified for, then by golly I'm going to call myself an engineer.
Language also involves. When words lose meaning people abandon them.
> Shaking your fist at the term "software engineer" isn't going to roll back those changes
And yet many countries has been capable of regulating words like "engineer", "medicine", "certified airline pilot" for very good reasons.