51–60 of 98 posts
I don't have formal CS education, but I've been working as a developer for 25 years. In the firm I've been in that last 15 years, only developers with 10+ years of experience actually make a difference. Others are either still learning, or just doing menial work. It makes me a bit sad this trend of "become a developer in 3 months". It's just a dream.
There are plenty of web dev work around and you don't need 10+ years of experience to do it.
Must admit I find it discouraging that I spend years in university years ago when people now just finish some self-learned material in a matter of a few months. It is only getting simpler every year. I don't see the future being bright for this discipline if the sentiment is that that is all it takes.
> I don't see the future being bright for this discipline if the sentiment is that that is all it takes. Building web apps isn't rocket science lol. You're just positioning divs on a screen and building basic CRUD apps. You can indeed learn most of what you need in 3 months. The rest is learned with experience in the real world.
you should probably avoid the term engineer and use "developer" instead, and "junior"
As a non-computer "real" engineer - what is the actual designation between these two terms in the CS world? In my experience the title "Engineer" is a legally protected one, and those using it without proper licensure can suffer penalty - take a look at the Strongtowns case for one example. But those in the programming world seem to be able to throw around the title on a whim. Any discussion/history/insight would be…
Now, someone with a degree called Software Engineering may well have had a somewhat different education than someone with a Computer Science degree. That's another matter, and whether the former makes them an engineer in the protected sense depends on where they are and exactly what the degree program was.
The most important part is missing from the article: how they found and got accepted for the first job. The hardest part of switching isn’t attending the bootcamp, it’s finding a company that is willing to take a chance on your lack of experience and future growth potential. Doubly so for switching into the industry during Q3 of 2020 and fully remote. Did they get extremely lucky? Did they go to school with the hirin…
After a year of experience I was getting legit decent offers - initially almost entirely via referral. I stayed around the initial company because I was still learning a lot. Many years later I am a senior engineer. The world does open after the first job but getting the first one is hell.
Don’t underestimate the class signaling that companies and hiring managers look for. Being some person with a portfolio and no experience almost never seems to make anyone take notice or consider an interview. I haven’t figured out how one would best repeat what I did - there’s lots of very viable and capable (and diverse!) people I know who’ve never been given the chance.
I’d love if there were companies that offered apprenticeships - plenty of people out there would take low pay to get some real experience.
I truly love success stories like this. We can make fun of bootcamps, but the people going into them are by-and-large trying to make themselves better than they are. Its the human condition and should be our goal.
You cannot claim this with any certainty. I would counter-claim that many who go into developing are in it for the gold-rush mentality (I can get paid $$$) which ultimately lowers the quality of software. I'm not doubting there are those who go into it with good intentions but it's not something that is cut out for anyone and those who get into it because it's a bright, shiny object are doing themselves a disservice.
I could disparage the reasons someone gets into programming (though, I think, money is a fine one), but if they then take positive actions to train, grow, learn then that is a net positive.
Look, we all know people who complain but never fix things. I have family members who I dearly care about, but they would rather whine about X/Y than take a step to fix it (or fix themselves). Someone taking the time, for whatever reason, to become more than they were before is a net positive I think.
Perhaps its more than you care to know, but its an important topic for me. I truly believe one of the reasons we are on this world is to become more and to grow. I appreciate people who try.
Code boot camps tend to be a bit one-dimensional and only give the students a slice of the basics, most often including setting up a work environment and focusing on lessons that produce immediate results and/or feedback. People interested in software development don't realize how easy it can be to get started making small projects, often needing their hand held at that critical entry point. Boot camps can help lift the veil of mysticism and show that software development isn't sorcery.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a non-computer "real" engineer - what is the actual designation between these two terms in the CS world? In my experience the title "Engineer" is a legally protected one, and those using it without proper licensure can suffer penalty - take a look at the Strongtowns case for one example. But those in the programming world seem to be able to throw around the title on a whim. Any discussion/history/insight would be…
It's a guild system in some countries to try and retain high wages. Engineer means, "Clever builder", how does that not describe software engineering?
you should probably avoid the term engineer and use "developer" instead, and "junior"
As a non-computer "real" engineer - what is the actual designation between these two terms in the CS world? In my experience the title "Engineer" is a legally protected one, and those using it without proper licensure can suffer penalty - take a look at the Strongtowns case for one example. But those in the programming world seem to be able to throw around the title on a whim. Any discussion/history/insight would be…
"How I successfully became a civil engineer in 3 months" Brrrrr. Why the hell this is allowed when talking about software is beyond me.
There's no qualification required to become a "software engineer", so you can absolutely become one (maybe not a very good one) in 3 months.
I truly love success stories like this. We can make fun of bootcamps, but the people going into them are by-and-large trying to make themselves better than they are. Its the human condition and should be our goal.
I would never make fun of bootcamps (my own journey has been ... "non-linear" ...), but I think that it is very important that people that attend them, have a mindset of "This is just the first rung of a very long ladder." I don't really appreciate recent bootcamp grads, lecturing me on how "I'm doing it wrong." The fault for this, usually falls on the bootcamp teachers, who present their information as "The One, Tru…