Live data from Hacker News

Why Paul Graham is wrong about New York City

thisisgoingtobebig.com

71–76 of 76 posts

Re: Why Paul Graham is wrong about New York City

#71
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In NYC, they have laws that a renter must earn an annual income that is 52x the monthly rent to qualify to rent the apartment (yes, subletting from someone is one way around it). In NYC, a 1BR apartment that you live in by yourself is a status symbol. The average monthly rent is north of $2,500. Spending $2k+ on rent just to live in the city, maybe that's more about ego than it is about money..

There's no such law, it's a general guideline that it be between 42-52 times the rent. Which makes a ton of sense to me. While rent is "extreme" for people who don't live here, you should also consider that we generally don't have the same expenses as people in the burbs or elsewhere. We don't own cars, we don't buy gas, etc. That right there knocks $500-750 off your living expenses. Furthermore, you need to consider…

Thanks. Good to hear 52x is not a law. But it is a very good rule of thumb for rent affordability. I think NYC is also much more diverse than other cosmopolitan cities because of their successful rent stabilization policies.

Re: Olive Garden - I escaped the suburbs to live in a major city but it doesn't compare to NYC of course. Where else will you have 5k restaurants and night-life at 3am (Paris, maybe..)

I go up to NYC quite often because I have family there. I was in Brooklyn recently. Nice to hear that there is a startup scene there. Saw lots of new loft construction going up everywhere near Grand. Sadly the Brooklyn Brewery was closed. BTW - Highly recommend Lily Thai (restaurant)

"The Housing Virgins of NYC" http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/24/garden/24new.html?_r=1&#38...

Rent-stabilization on the UWS [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell-Lama].

Re: Why Paul Graham is wrong about New York City

#72
post #20

When PG says New York City, I usually take it to mean Manhattan. Brooklyn and Queens are both pretty awesome. If anyone here is from NYC, I'd love to start some real-life gatherings for YC'ers. Edit: on this topic, I believe reddit started in brooklyn and later relocated. Can anyone confirm?

Sounds good to me too.

Re: Why Paul Graham is wrong about New York City

#73
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe its not all about money, but its definitely more about money. Coming from Wisconsin and working in Manhattan, I find my midwestern frugalness is completely alien to people. Time is money here, there is no doubt about it. Walking three blocks and taking a subway ride gets thrown out the window in favor of a $20 cab ride. Its the small stuff but it adds up. When a city suffers a shortage of BMWs after Wall Street…

In NYC, they have laws that a renter must earn an annual income that is 52x the monthly rent to qualify to rent the apartment (yes, subletting from someone is one way around it). In NYC, a 1BR apartment that you live in by yourself is a status symbol. The average monthly rent is north of $2,500. Spending $2k+ on rent just to live in the city, maybe that's more about ego than it is about money..

>maybe that's more about ego than it is about money

I would say it's about being willing to pay a premium to live in a dense, vibrant city with all that goes along with it.

Re: Why Paul Graham is wrong about New York City

#74
"Ideas today are a commodity. Anyone can have an idea..."

This line scares me.

Yes anyone can have an idea. In fact everyone has ideas. The catch is that they range from disastrously false to powerfully true.

A place that:

1. Values ideas in the abstract (and not just their shiny tangible fruits), and

2. Is skilled in the art of investigating the truthfulness of a proposition (dialectic),

will arrive at truer and therefore more powerful beliefs, faster. If Cambridge offers more of that to people than elsewhere, then PG is right. Since the rebuttal doesn't seem to comprehend this, it serves for me as one more data point that PG is right.

Pay attention in case you missed it - PG taps out an article in Cambridge about how ideas are valued there more than anywhere else, and someone not in Cambridge writes a rebuttal that seems to hurriedly elbow right past the big idea, about ideas.

Now, as far as why the idea capital and the startup capital aren't (currently) one in the same. Well, have you ever noticed that not all ideas are about startups? And some very powerful ones at that. Like...

- ideas about the limits of human potential, technically and ethically.

- ideas about how to properly wield rationalism and empiricism

- ideas about what is good (to be sure, if your idea here isn't just an incremental advancement but a disruptive one, it can result in your imprisonment and execution rather than your IPO).

- maybe a few trillion others

So you can see why it will be hard for the capital of ideas to be the predominate home of any single occupation. Add to this, that powerful ideas tend to motivate people who manage to believe in them to the point of conviction. So if an idea motivates someone to execute their plan - their plan to reform education, their plan to work with the poor, their plan to save the whales for god sakes not just their plan for another effing startup, am i clear? - then they won't always be executing there in Cambridge. That doesn't mean that ideas are antithetical to execution.

But I would still buy this man a beer, because PG's article seemed true, but brutally so. And if such a thing had been said about my mother and she had heard it, it would be right to rise indignantly to say, "Scoundrel, take that back!" Of course the honest thing would be to later educate her on the truthfulness of those very same points, but in a more gentle and loving way.

So Charlie, I reject your reasoning but applaud your chivalry.

Re: Why Paul Graham is wrong about New York City

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the banking thing isn't as much of a problem as it seems. I work as a financial recruiter, and one of the patterns I see is an on/off relationship with startups and banks, e.g. working two years at Goldman, then one year at a new search engine, then a year at Credit Suisse, then three years starting up a new wiki-based whatsit. If you know you can quit and -- within a few months -- be earning a great livi…

If you know you can quit and -- within a few months -- be earning a great living writing trading algorithms in C++ or reporting systems in Java, a startup is a much saner risk. That cuts both ways, though: it's too easy to bail at the first hint of trouble at a startup, which is why there are relatively few great startup stories out of NY.

It's easy for a programmer to cover higher living expenses in NYC because tech jobs pay well here. If you quit your job to make a go of it with a startup, you had better start making money quickly, or your reserves will be depleted before you know it. This has happened to me twice in two years.

Re: Why Paul Graham is wrong about New York City

#76

"Ideas today are a commodity. Anyone can have an idea..." This line scares me. Yes anyone can have an idea. In fact everyone has ideas. The catch is that they range from disastrously false to powerfully true. A place that: 1. Values ideas in the abstract (and not just their shiny tangible fruits), and 2. Is skilled in the art of investigating the truthfulness of a proposition (dialectic), will arrive at truer and the…

I spent a month in Cambridge after writing this and now think this post was a bit rash.

Cambridge may be more about ideas than anywhere else, but it also seemed home, more than anywhere else, to people doing scholarship for scholarship sake and to people who had subjugated significant ideas to serve their little ideas.

Again and again I ran into people studying great thinkers and great thoughts for no greater reason than that they had never been out of academia, didn't want to leave, and were using these thinkers and thoughts as fodder for their thesis (job application) in order to get a professorship that would shield them from the outside world forever.

Encountering those sickly sorts will leave any results oriented person, like Charlie, wary.

Post reply on HN