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Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

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161–170 of 194 posts

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#161
I really don't get what is the big deal about not liking unity, this sound strange on "hacker news" site where people are using keyboards rather than mice most of their time.

From my opinion, the alt+tab functionality is an improvement, the app/docs search works great and the overall look and feel is smooth and fine.

I do not pay too much attention whether my active apps are represented as rectangles in a bottom bar or as lighting dots on a left bar.

In general, when preaching about the ability to choose it is also include the ability to choose not to use gnome and use something new.

Ubuntu/Canonical/Shuttleworth owes me nothing, seriously, they have been providing me the entire Ubuntu distro platform and infrastructure for free, and in the last year alone, I have installed Ubuntu on about 500 network appliances I provided to my customer.

I, and perhaps every Ubuntu other users, owe to "Ubuntu" more than Ubuntu owe to us, so all this rant and complaining gets to my ears as a spoiled child complaining to his mama.

Bottom line, my vim is the same vim, my chrome is the same chrome and my Konsole is the same, oh, sorry, it is a bit different and better now, because I set "Ubuntu Mono 11pt." as the default font.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#162
post #161

I really don't get what is the big deal about not liking unity, this sound strange on "hacker news" site where people are using keyboards rather than mice most of their time. From my opinion, the alt+tab functionality is an improvement, the app/docs search works great and the overall look and feel is smooth and fine. I do not pay too much attention whether my active apps are represented as rectangles in a bottom bar…

Except that lots of people don't agree with you. People have already been using gnome-do (quicksilver) for fast keyboard app launching for a few years; it's faster, more focused, and less keystrokes than the Unity bar. You also can't use it without installing some extra stuff and getting unity to give up its monopoly on the mod (win) key.

As for the alt+tab functionality.. well, if you are used to OSX and its third rate window management (can't move or resize windows without aiming at a tiny bar or handle?) and broken virtual desktop implementation, then maybe this kind of impoverished behavior is a welcome change. Since I have OSX experience, global menu's aren't a big problem for me, except when they are hidden by default and show up on different screens depending on window location. An interesting compromise for multi-monitor users, but mystery-meat menu decision is mind boggling.

For people who have now had ~16 years of window-centric keyboard navigation, having no good muscle-memory way to switch among 3 windows in 2 different applications is a nightmare. Having alt-tab slide your entire desktop over is just an insult on top of that injury. We use exact same set of tools (vim, chrome, and a terminal), but you must only ever use one window each; I can't imagine how you could tolerate the new app-switcher's behavior otherwise.

Your point about the only change being the font is also interesting, since in Ubuntu 11.10 you cannot change your fonts (or any colors on your theme, or gtk2 themes which a majority of apps will still use) without installing some third party tool with a terrible UI that looks worse than anything has since gnome-2 was released. The terminal is the only program that provides a UI for changing it.

In general, I agree with the posts in this thread that say you can massage the XFCE desktop into a worse version of what gnome-2 was about 3 years ago. After trying very hard to get along in Unity and 11.10 (gvim freezes for 30 seconds on start-up if you have installed foreign language packs, a bug fedora fixed about 9 months ago but persists in ubuntu), I've given up am using XFCE w/ Compiz (which doesn't work that great but is usable) until I find a weekend where I can ditch it for something else.

The part that's sad is that I did not find Gnome3 to be much better than Unity; it still has the same "enhanced" (broken) window/app collection which I find completely unsuitable for doing real work without encountering incredible friction. So for me (and probably others), Gnome3 has joined KDE4 as some unusable tangent, essentially killing off systems I was very happy and productive with. Gnome2 is a temporary fix; it's a dead end. XFCE still feels very spartan; in the past 3 years Gnome2 has got better and better and XFCE has barely moved. Hopefully, someone (maybe Mint, or maybe the ElementaryOS guys) will raid the remnants of Gnome2 come up with a system that has a living development path.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#163
post #125
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Frankly, I'm not even sure it's possible to "drive off teh road to a new place" when it comes to desktop UX Sure it is. 3d file managers[1] never took off. With todays hardware they'd be a lot nicer to use. Users have been limited to quite small (sorry about my incorrect terminology here, I'm going to go read some man pages) total virtual screen size within which their windows were located. Now graphics cards, and…

3D file management never took off because no one has yet found a meaningful and intuitive use for three dimensions that couldn't be accomplished with two. The screenshots of FSV on that site show me a 2D interface that's been extruded into cubes and displayed isometrically. Usable, but the 3D is superfluous. All the other 3D file managers appear utterly unusable. What on earth is going on in this screenshot of Tactil…

To me, the clearest mandate for using three dimensions for file management is in creating a space that people can become as mentally familiar with as they can with a house.

We already know that one of the most powerful methods for creating a lasting memory of intangible items, the "memory palace", is basically walking around a three-dimensional space.

It seems clear that there is a possibility here to create a fully-functional three-dimensional metaphor. However, it is not an evolutionary step. It would be something so foreign that it would be better to teach it to people who never managed files before. And to be honest, with apologies to Dropbox, the numbers of such folks is back on the rise because file management itself is an increasingly irrelevant task, not just on iOS but on Chromebooks and just about any non-desktop computing device.

And so although there is a very interesting potential, I have to wonder if the quest for better file management is even worth fretting over anymore. Hasn't being "ready for the desktop" largely been an exercise in skating to where the puck has been? Maybe a revolutionary file manager would have been strategic ten years ago, but now?

So I welcome Canonical's focus on touch devices. Yet I'm concerned about the sheer inertia of maintaining an identity, in being Ubuntu, on a significantly different platform. We saw how well the Windows Tablet PC succeeded at being Windows, and in so doing lost the platform. I sure hope that's not what happens here.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#164
post #21

Linux Mint has put Google custom search into the distribution in order to raise revenue. It's in firefox both from the address bar, the search box, and in the quick search from the 'start' menu. It's very annoying, and it isn't just a matter of opting out. Mint doesn't support an easy way to remove it from all three locations without getting technical. I used mint for a couple of months, the custom search engine came…

Also, this is absolutely unacceptable: Our goal is to give users a good search experience while funding ourselves by receiving a share of this income. Search engines who do not share the income generated by our users, are removed from Linux Mint and might get their ads blocked. http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851

Why is this so unacceptable? Browsers like Opera and Firefox also have deals with Google, Bing etc. for revenue sharing.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#165
post #12

It seems that nothing made more for the spread of minor linux distros than the introduction of Gnome 3...

... and they knew it was going to happen, because of the annoyance that KDE caused when they went to KDE 4.0, and the number of people that moved from KDE to other desktop environments.

Gentle iteration (改善) is fine, and complete overhaul is fine, but the combination of killing off the old version and introduction of workflow-breaking new versions; with a supposedly community driven project ignoring many users has been very frustrating for some users.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#166
post #163
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3D file management never took off because no one has yet found a meaningful and intuitive use for three dimensions that couldn't be accomplished with two. The screenshots of FSV on that site show me a 2D interface that's been extruded into cubes and displayed isometrically. Usable, but the 3D is superfluous. All the other 3D file managers appear utterly unusable. What on earth is going on in this screenshot of Tactil…

To me, the clearest mandate for using three dimensions for file management is in creating a space that people can become as mentally familiar with as they can with a house. We already know that one of the most powerful methods for creating a lasting memory of intangible items, the "memory palace", is basically walking around a three-dimensional space. It seems clear that there is a possibility here to create a fully-…

But a file manager's principal function is to organize things. And people don't think three-dimensionally when they're organizing things. They don't even think two-dimensionally. It's always a single dimension, some kind of vector, and they compose things into one-dimensional vectors that may contain other one-dimensional vectors, but they're always looking for one dimension at a time.

If you're looking for a quotation from your favorite author (assuming Google wasn't helpful), you're not going to nevigate a three-dimensional conceptual space to find it. You're going to first iterate through your list of bookshelves, and find the appropriate shelf (assuming you have lots of books and sort them into shelves e.g. by topic or alphabetically). Then you'll sort through the books on the shelf and find the book you need. Then, you'll go through the chapters of the book, etc.

The mind organizes information into categories, and groups categories within categories. Visual mnemonics are great, but they help us to find the specific item we're looking for at the appropriate level of abstraction, and they work just as well in organized, two-dimensional spaces as well as three.

I agree that there may be a lot of potential for some major breakthrough, but having to remember that your Economics paper is stored in an inventory slot in a chest in the inn in that logging town outside Stormwind isn't it.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#167
post #164
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, this is absolutely unacceptable: Our goal is to give users a good search experience while funding ourselves by receiving a share of this income. Search engines who do not share the income generated by our users, are removed from Linux Mint and might get their ads blocked. http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851

Why is this so unacceptable? Browsers like Opera and Firefox also have deals with Google, Bing etc. for revenue sharing.

If you switch the default search engine in Opera or Firefox, they won't try to to fuck the alternative provider over by blocking his ads.

One is called choice, the other is called blackmail.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#168
post #102

One of Paul's imperatives is to make a few people very happy rather than a lot of people kind of happy. That in mind, I think this is a good move for Canonical to move to Unity in 11.10. If people want the user-friendliness of GNOME, they can go to other linux distributions. But Canonical is doing well with open source technology - they've actually moved linux to something beyond the more savvy users and hackers - it…

> They can't directly compete with Apple and Microsoft, so experimenting with what Linux can be specialized in or how to make it unique are worth disappointing a few users, To me this feels a bit like what Opera has churned through - first you pay; then you pay to get rid of ads (or not); then it's got great CSS (which is rigidly compliant but makes some sites look weird); then it's free; then it's got versions for m…

Opera is a great browser. Unfortunately, not many people know that it's a great browser, because they use IE or Safari or Ff or Chrome.

Operas has very good mobile market share, i.e. where it matters now. They executed well on that space.

Whatever advantages they have on desktop (questionable IMHO) don't seem to be compelling or strong enough to win users over. And just like everyone else, they now have to fight the Google Chrome advertising juggernaut.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#169
Yesterday I upgraded to Ubuntu 11.10, having already regretted going from 10.10 to 11.04.

In 11.04 the Gnome fall back just about worked. In 11.10 it does not. As for Unity I can't tell whether it's working as intended or is buggy.

Every progressive update from 10.04 has gotten increasingly slow to boot and respond.

As we speak I'm preparing to install Mint, with a fall back to Ubuntu 10.10.

Re: Linux Mint: The new Ubuntu?

#170

Personally I found it a bit snarky. By the same token I find that UI wars are the most vitriolic, after all they are the way you talk to the machine day in and day out. Screwing with that, screws with everything. I have found Ubuntu's strategy interesting because it seemed clear that while KDE was following general guidelines around Microsoft OSes to be more accessible, and Gnome was following general guidelines arou…

The problem is that Unity isn't just new -- it's just too buggy to use.
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