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TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

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Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#41

Post by judge2020 »

timeimp wrote: post #19

I've heard (anecdotally) that the attention span of all the younger users has taken a dramatic shift south. Educators and employers are noticing they cannot keep students / new employees engaged. Makes me wonder what damage is happening, long-term, with all these short bursts of dopamine that TikTok gives it users.

From this article[0] it seems the claims about attention span come from an unreliable source.

Given ‘kids these days’ have been cited as being disrespectful to their elders for thousands of years[1], I wouldn’t be surprised if the attention span is actually different between today’s Zoomers and a teenage boomer/millennial/X.

0: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-38896790

1: https://doi.org/10.1126/sciadv.aav5916

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#42

Post by magic_hamster »

mkaic wrote: post #28
notyourwork wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their algo is super reactive at times with the right threshold of tuning for expanding/exploring new content. It’s also great at leaning back into familiar stuff. Overall it’s a really well done ML model.

I actually worked briefly with an engineer who claimed to have seen the inner workings of the TikTok algorithm when she was consulting for them (she was a software engineer and mathematician), and I was very surprised to hear her say that there was no ML involved in the algorithm! Of course, I'm not sure I believe her, but it definitely raises the question of whether an algorithm of TikTok's caliber is even possible…

Hand crafted recommendation algorithms are on par with current ML offerings if not better - but they take much much longer to develop.

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#43

Post by cardamomo »

askafriend wrote: post #36
timeimp wrote: post #19

I've heard (anecdotally) that the attention span of all the younger users has taken a dramatic shift south. Educators and employers are noticing they cannot keep students / new employees engaged. Makes me wonder what damage is happening, long-term, with all these short bursts of dopamine that TikTok gives it users.

Why default to blaming the students/employees? The educational system and employers have a responsibility to be engaging and enriching if they want interest and passion back from their students/employees. I'm not saying there's no problem with overconsumption of cheap media. But I think we're too quick to jump to blaming individuals. We can just as much flip the question around and ask what educators and employers ar…

David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" comes to mind as a well written critique of the kinds of jobs you seem to be describing. https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/david-graeber-bullsh...

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#44

Post by fragmede »

mkaic wrote: post #28
notyourwork wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their algo is super reactive at times with the right threshold of tuning for expanding/exploring new content. It’s also great at leaning back into familiar stuff. Overall it’s a really well done ML model.

I actually worked briefly with an engineer who claimed to have seen the inner workings of the TikTok algorithm when she was consulting for them (she was a software engineer and mathematician), and I was very surprised to hear her say that there was no ML involved in the algorithm! Of course, I'm not sure I believe her, but it definitely raises the question of whether an algorithm of TikTok's caliber is even possible…

Each video is node. Figure out where to add edges to existing content, graph theory some shit and tune for similar content maximizing viewing time of short video clips. No ML necessary. Of course, given the magic ML sometimes seems to be, they could certainly be using it but the inputs and outputs are remarkably simple if you get the data structures right. To be clear, I'm not saying it's easy, just that ML's not necessary.

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#45

Post by floucky »

oars wrote: post #17

The Tiktok algorithm we have rewards repetitive dancing in front of the camera, pulling ("fake") pranks and random snippets from movies edited together with dramatic music added. In China (their app is called Douyin), the algorithm rewards things they want their youth to be doing. Content which involves maths, engineering, medicine, etc are rewarded. I'm certain that there is some strategic motive from China to push…

Youtube is already full of this stuff, Instagram is full of narcissist people, Twitter is full of angry people and so on. I don't think we need China.

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#46

Post by magic_hamster »

remflight wrote: post #22

TikTok is crazy addictive. I’m in my 50s and I watch it for an hour when I wake up and an hour before I sleep. It’s entertaining as hell but I know it’s bad for me. The fact that Instagram is copying them is sad.

My 50s are still a long way ahead of me and yet I didn't last 10 minutes on tiktok.

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#48

Post by zarzavat »

oars wrote: post #17

The Tiktok algorithm we have rewards repetitive dancing in front of the camera, pulling ("fake") pranks and random snippets from movies edited together with dramatic music added. In China (their app is called Douyin), the algorithm rewards things they want their youth to be doing. Content which involves maths, engineering, medicine, etc are rewarded. I'm certain that there is some strategic motive from China to push…

TikTok doesn't just show inane dance videos in America. It shows them throughout the world. If China had some evil plan to poison the minds of youth they are not just targeting American kids.

In reality, Hanlon's razor applies. It's better explained by apathy rather than an evil masterplan. China simply doesn't care about non-Chinese kids, they consider that the American government is responsible for American kids' welfare.

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#49

Post by jmfayard »

thematrixturtle wrote: post #27
oars wrote: post #17

The Tiktok algorithm we have rewards repetitive dancing in front of the camera, pulling ("fake") pranks and random snippets from movies edited together with dramatic music added. In China (their app is called Douyin), the algorithm rewards things they want their youth to be doing. Content which involves maths, engineering, medicine, etc are rewarded. I'm certain that there is some strategic motive from China to push…

Got source? The social media market in China is fiercely competitive and TikTok (Douyin) got to be king of the hill by delivering exactly what its users want, not what the CCP wishes they wanted.

"My source is that I made it up"

Re: TikTok and the Fall of the Social-Media Giants

#50

Post by Foobar8568 »

Foobar8568 wrote: post #30
oars wrote: post #17

The Tiktok algorithm we have rewards repetitive dancing in front of the camera, pulling ("fake") pranks and random snippets from movies edited together with dramatic music added. In China (their app is called Douyin), the algorithm rewards things they want their youth to be doing. Content which involves maths, engineering, medicine, etc are rewarded. I'm certain that there is some strategic motive from China to push…

It's not the big eaters that are all rage in Asia, including China?

Since people don't know much about the topic https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53840167 Or back in 2017 https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/2118386/meet...
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