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House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

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Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Citizens United made it explicit that money is speech and as such can't be hindered. I suspect that because of this ruling, we couldn't just pass a law that prohibits money in politics because the ruling precludes it. A constitutional amendment would nuke the current limitations, but it's impossible in practice for us to get there. On the other hand, as we've seen as of late, no decision by the Supreme Court is…

Congress could fix it if they really wanted to. Make a law that essentially reverses the interpretation of Citizens United, and then take it out of the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court. Not that this is in any way likely to happen, of course.

If such a law were passed (and I agree, it's extremely unlikely), I expect that litigation would be filed as to it's constitutionality. Which would put the ball back in the Supreme Court's court, so to speak.

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#332

Lawrence Lessig (Harvard law professor famous for fighting for sane copyright law) does a great presentation on the root cause of Americas problems. He also ran for president in 2016. It can be watched here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu66tE The short version is that to win primaries you need money. Money mainly comes from corporations and rich people. Taking money from corporations and rich people creates…

I'm originally from Kenya. We used to have a joke "If it happens in Africa it is called corruption. If it happens in the US it is called lobbying". I remember seeing a chart of how much money a Senator had to raise every week for their next race and it was stark bonkers (and this was in the 90s, before Citizens United). I just checked and the figure is even worse now. https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/02/state-of…

> "If it happens in Africa it is called corruption. If it happens in the US it is called lobbying".

It's the same here in Europe, we are joking how elites in US legalized corruption and called it lobbying, it's really weird for us (outside of US), that people just go along with this state of things and do nothing about it, like almost whole population would be after some kind of long period of brain washing in US.

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#333

Hear me out... few people want to run for federal office already. The pay isn't great and it's hard work. If the US was a company, there'd be no question that we'd need to pay our leadership much better to attract top talent. We pay senators $170k a year to manage our country with a $20 trillion economy. So what we end up with is activists who crave power and elites from rich families for whom $170k a year is a round…

This seems logical, but you're being naïve if you think politicians aren't going to skirt these regulations. I mean, shit, they're already insider-trading out in the open and nobody events wants to spend 3 seconds looking into it. Keep in mind, that's a swift prison sentence for a mere mortal.

We need people who truly want to make a difference and take pride in the outcomes of their work. I'm thinking of the likes of "founding fathers" who came out of turmoil and persecutions to build something better. They knew they ain't going back to the shit they came from and they carried that forward for several generations. We no longer have that craving to do better. It's been long-lost during decades of enormous prosperity and chill lives. Our problems are miniscule in comparison to what they once were.

So now, we have people who don't give a shit about anything except for their iPhones and daily celeb videos on TikTok. It's this lack of curiosity and any kind of knowledge about the state of things from general population is how you end up with greedy sociopaths running everything in politics. This country needs a decade of actual turmoil to wake everyone up out of their idle stupor. Nothing will change until everyone is fed up and craving for normalcy. In other words - we're kind of doomed.

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That study has a lot of problems, and several subsequent problems pointed out the holes. Here's a good summary of subsequent research that debunked it. https://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11502464/gilens-page-oligarchy-... Even if the study were true it shows that when economic elites (150k+) disagree with the middle class they get there way more often. (Btw it showed that the middle class and the rich agreed like 80-90% of…

How much are politicians paid —and how does their salary affect corruption? It might not be a popular opinion, but perhaps we should double the wages of US Representatives (they currently make $175k—not a lot in Washington DC). Is paying US representatives $350k worth the money? First, a bigger financial cushion for representatives might reduce financial corruption. Second, a bigger salary might attract more talented…

No modern politician survives solely on their gov't salary. Typically, politicians have money before starting out. Then, once in, they get all of those juicy "ins" that opens the doors to making more money.

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Money in politics is the root of most of what ails the U.S political system I disagree that money is the root . Money is still one level above the true root, which is what the money is needed to buy: "Re-election." Thus, an alternative, though unconventional, solution is single-term limits. Once elected to any national public office, you can never run for that or any other elected office again. One and done. This i…

Why would someone elected to office, who knows they can't run again, have any concern about the will of the people? At best you would have the same outcome that you get from politicians at the end of their terms, and it's not like these politicians are solving all of society's ailments. If they can still get lobbying money by operating on the will of corporations, they could spend their whole term making money for th…

> Why would someone elected to office, who knows they can't run again, have any concern about the will of the people?

Reason #1 is the Princeton study cited in other posts:

> The key finding: “The preferences of the average American appear to have only a miniscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.”[1]

It's already clear that "the will of the people" isn't being represented currently.

Reason #2 is "the will of the people" being reflected is not (and has never been) a design goal of the U.S. system of government. The U.S. was specifically created as a "representative democracy" and not a "direct democracy." This was debated extensively at the time of the founding of the country. They decided then (I think correctly), that it was better to have voters choose representatives, who, once elected, are supposed to vote what they personally think is genuinely the 'best' answer, not what they think 51% of their district's citizens want them to vote.

> they could spend their whole term making money for themselves with no concern about re-election.

This is already super against the law and congress members have gone to jail for it surprisingly often. The FBI has a special unit constantly searching, investigating and probing for any sign of it. At the same time as single-term limits, I would >10x the budget of these investigators. At least enough to ensure that more than one lobbyist meeting a year per legislator is a well-run Abscam-like sting operation and the politicians have no idea which one. I'd also substantially increase the jail time for such convictions, along with substantially increasing our one-term legislator's pay at least to $1M/year. The goal being to reduce the need to cheat while dramatically increasing the penalties for cheating.

Combined, the higher pay + higher penalties would have the effect of significantly increasing the $Cost to influence a legislator with money. While the single-term limit would greatly reduce the $Value of influencing a legislator. Having the ear of someone likely to be in power for many terms is much more valuable than having the ear of someone who's gonna be gone for sure next term. I think the combined result will substantially reduce the amount of illicit influence peddling, leaving our legislators free to simply vote their conscience - which is really the best result we can realistically hope for anyway. None of the "Suspiciously Got Very Rich While in Office" >5 term legislators accrued any significant wealth in their first term. Even with the current laws, penalties and underfunded FBI enforcement, the only way to get rich in congress is to do it over many terms.

If you really sit down and thoroughly ponder how single-term limits would actually play out in the real world, vs the results we are actually getting now (not what we should be getting), there are a lot of interesting impacts. For one, it's very likely to reduce the power of the two major duopoly political parties who've jointly controlled Washington for >50 years. While it would increase the viability of tertiary political parties who are currently irrelevant. It's also likely to increase incentives for tertiary parties to sometimes form meaningful alliances as we see in some European countries. Anytime anyone votes for any candidate OTHER than a Democrat or Republican, it's currently a wasted vote. Thus alternatives can't ever build any gradual, grassroots traction and things just grow increasingly polarized at the extremes.

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#336
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about the specifics you outlined, but I do think a comp package that incentivizes grown-ass behavior (read: full attendance, voting, actual participation in the legislative process) is a great idea. I don't think rewarding certain behaviors like sponsoring is good, because its too easily abused. When a KPI becomes a target, its no longer a KPI.

If we're designing a system of incentives and constraints for legislators, let's pay bounties for laws deleted . There are probably 2 or 3 orders of magnitude too many laws currently in America (have you ever estimated trying to read and comprehend the entire law? Borderline impossible in a single lifetime even under very optimistic reading-speed assumptions etc). If this metric becomes a target and ceases to be a go…

Repealing laws counts towards the kpi

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea of "blind" or anonymous congressional voting. It feels counterintuitive, but donors might be less willing to "buy" votes if they can't confirm that they're getting what they pay for. And a representative who has accepted lots of corporate money might feel safer "betraying" those donors. I think representatives would still feel pressure to vote in line with the interests of their constituents and get r…

In firing squads, one rifle holds a blank to preserve the possibility in the hearts of the shooters that theirs was not the shot that killed. I imagine blind voting would also serve to assuage the worries of legislators. If only we knew what each worried about.

Firing squad members don’t usually fire more than one bullet, and it’s very obvious if your case was blank or not.

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#338
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you clarify when/how a KPI ever not a target? Bonuses and promotions always go to those who exceed them, and "improvement plans" or "restructuring" is reserved to those who miss.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive#The_origina... Any imperfect measure that becomes a target gets pursued at the expense of the original intent.

It's not a perverse incentive, there is a limit to it. And it has a counter balancing incentive in the form of having to run for an election. If you passed bad laws for the sake of metrics you get voted out because there is someone else that wants to do better than you. A perverse incentive is not the same as compensation for doing your job.

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That study has a lot of problems, and several subsequent problems pointed out the holes. Here's a good summary of subsequent research that debunked it. https://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11502464/gilens-page-oligarchy-... Even if the study were true it shows that when economic elites (150k+) disagree with the middle class they get there way more often. (Btw it showed that the middle class and the rich agreed like 80-90% of…

How much are politicians paid —and how does their salary affect corruption? It might not be a popular opinion, but perhaps we should double the wages of US Representatives (they currently make $175k—not a lot in Washington DC). Is paying US representatives $350k worth the money? First, a bigger financial cushion for representatives might reduce financial corruption. Second, a bigger salary might attract more talented…

>"It might not be a popular opinion, but perhaps we should double the wages of US Representatives"

How about this: we can have some criteria like state of health, education, buying ability etc and call it well being index. If it increases politicians get a bonus. If it decreases they pay fine.

Re: House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading – report

#340
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does paying a politician MORE than 3x median US pay make them less out of touch with the average American? We don't need politicians 15x out of touch with the median American's lifestyle. In NYC governor's last election, there was a question about how much the median house costs in Brooklyn, and two high level candidates gave absolutely bonkers answers like $90k and $120k, when it's actually $900k. You only want…

I could not afford my life on a senator's pay. Not even close. Couldn't take the job even if it was offered to me on a silver platter. President's pay comes with housing so my family could probably make that work, would be belt tightening--especially because I'd be on the hook for the food in state dinners and such. Not that I think anyone wants me to be a senator or the president but rather I couldn't afford to be.…

Good, because you sound like you couldn't be a representative for anyone.

Also, presidents don't pay for state dinners out of their salaries. The - state - pays for it.

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