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Show HN: Parsnip – Duolingo for Cooking

parsnip.ai

151–160 of 377 posts

Re: Show HN: Parsnip – Duolingo for Cooking

#151
I'm a culinary school graduate and former professional chef. I appreciate this app touching on techniques and ingredients rather than just throwing recipes at you. Trying to learn how to cook by following recipes is like trying to learn a language by reading pamphlets. The 'why' behind recipes is learnable, the knowledge is useful before you master it, and the shift in results is dramatic.

Resources:

Maybe this app? Haven't really dug into it but it looked hopeful from the description.

An approachable, well-written introductory read on the topic is Michael Ruhlman's Ratio. Start there. Most tech types start with more technical books like Harold McGee's On Food and Cooking. Don't. Technical knowledge helps, but isn't required. Cooking is an art! Approaching it like organic chemistry yields enjoyable nerding but mediocre food. A biology class would be useful for an artist, but if you're learning to draw, take a life drawing class. Taking biology first won't help. Once you are comfortable with Ratio, grab the Flavor Bible for reference. It's a huge paper database of flavor affinities. After getting comfortable with the art of cooking, read McGee. It's well-written enough to read straight through but dense enough to use as a reference. Many decry his less-than-perfect understanding -- his PhD is in Poetry, after all. I've never seen a critic as good at cooking as criticizing people. If they were as interested in cooking as criticizing people, they'd have paid more attention to his book.

Advice on learning to cook really damn good food:

1) Season. Get comfortable with seasoning. Maybe 70% of professional cooking polish stems from proper seasoning. Your tongue only senses 5 things: saltiness, sweetness , sourness , bitterness, and savoriness (glutamates.) Everything else is sensed by your olfactory bulb. Activating your tongue with those senses makes your brain pay much closer attention to what you smell. If your food tastes flat or boring, there's a 90% chance it's under-seasoned. This requires considering ALL of those senses, not just salt. Your folk explanations of seasoning or "common knowledge" approaches to seasoning are probably wrong.

2) Smell everything. Taste everything. Eat a spoonful of Dijon mustard. Bite a bit off of a sage leaf and compare that with dried sage. Contemplate Worcestershire sauce. Let it sit in your mouth and breath through your nose so you really hit your olfactory bulb. Smell that cooking oil that's been sitting around for a few months and compare it to a brand new bottle. Ponder the differences. This practice avoids putting bad ingredients in your food and expands your palate.

3) Move away from recipes. Start thinking about cooking in terms of ingredient ratios and techniques rather than recipes.

4) Learn about heat. Get comfortable with the appropriate application of heat. Learn about dry heat and moist heat techniques. Figure out how things like ingredient temperature and salt content can change that. Pay attention to browning and searing. Learn why you shouldn't crowd a pan.

5) Stop timing things. Start using your 5 senses and tools like a thermometer to tell when something is done. If Rice-a-roni can cook by time, why can't you? The ingredient size, density and moisture content is pretty uniform. Boiling water is uniform enough to yield predictable results. None of that is true when you're, say, roasting broccoli or cooking a steak.

6) Watch relationships. Pay attention to what happens to ingredients when treated in specific ways, and how they interact. E.g. caramelizing onions vs sauteing vs raw... and how they hit differently in salad or onion dip or meat loaf. These differences exist in most ingredients we use.

7) Get experience. Push yourself to experience new things and challenge your reflexive food rejections.

8) Nobody owes it to you to like your dish. Accept that food is emotionally complicated for people. Tastes vary widely and are influenced by everything from cultural exposure to genetics. No matter how much effort you put into a dish, some people just won't like it, and that's fine.

9) Be humble. Deep understanding of food is not a superpower. Little ol' gram gram made the same 15 dishes her whole life, but probably knows more about the subtleties of those dishes and their ingredients than I know about everything else. Complexity is not the pinnacle of good taste or sophistication. Simplicity executed perfectly is often more sophisticated and more difficult than complexity. Focus and good taste are the keys.

Here's a related anecdote. I worked in nightclubs in my early twenties. We got free, ice-cold bottom-of-the-barrel light beer after our hot, stressful, exhausting shifts. I still enjoy reliving that on a hot summer day. I also regularly drank with some household names in craft beer, and a few Sommeliers. Their focused education and experience blew mine away, but my palate was easily on par. So when I order a lawnmower beer in some mediocre bar the 23 year bartender says "here's your glass of horse piss. You know there are some craft options that are just as..." well... he should just be very thankful I'm no longer a chef.

Re: Show HN: Parsnip – Duolingo for Cooking

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd like to see a cooking teaching app that allows users to work through a recipe in varying levels of detail. For example, consider a Lasagna. A lower level recipe may use ricotta for a quick and easy version, a higher level might explain step by step how to make a bechamel, and the "hardest" level may just say "make a bechamel". Can you hear that noise? That's the noise of a million Italians crying. Because of yo…

> Can you hear that noise? That's the noise of a million Italians crying. I'm not Italian, so I don't care as much... Also, as the original comment mentioned, this is supposed to have different degrees of how easy/flexible/practical it is

If you take a beginner cooking course you'd normally learn bechamel very early on - it's the base of so many great meals. I mean, it's a white roux and milk. While I was half joking in my previous comment I'd expect the way an app would work is to start with easier meals (maybe a mac & cheese, as this uses a bechamel as the base of the cheese sauce) rather than adapt more difficult meals for simplicity. I thought I'd get away with this joke because the original commenter seems to know his stuff around the kitchen and would appreciate a classic comment about Italians and their sometimes intense beliefs in sticking to traditional cooking :P

Re: Show HN: Parsnip – Duolingo for Cooking

#153
post #132

this looks cool but the data collected label in google play claims that it collects emails (under the messages heading). i believe it's probably meant to indicate that email addresses are collected, but the way it's presented it sounds like it collects actual email content. (these new labels are self-reported, right?)

We definitely don't collect any e-mail content, nor do we request access to your e-mail!

Re: Show HN: Parsnip – Duolingo for Cooking

#154

I love this! Already completed the "Scrambled Eggs" series. I really enjoy cooking and this is a fun way to enhance my skills, thank you!

After completing "Scrambled Eggs", I unlocked the recipe but after competing "Avocado Toast" the recipe was not unlocked and I'm not sure what to do to unlock it. What am I missing?

Did you do all the levels in Avocado Toast? If so, that's a bug :(

Re: Show HN: Parsnip – Duolingo for Cooking

#155
post #59

This looks great! I will definitely be trying it out. I haven't seen this asked or answered anywhere and am curious - how do you guys plan to make this profitable? Charging for more "advanced" features? Ads? I already have the Duolingo owl chasing after me for money (and more time).

In my opinion the ad-based business model is mostly dead. We'll have to find a new one.

We're building in the open at https://parsnip.substack.com/ and you can subscribe if you'd like to follow along with how we figure out the business model!

Re: Show HN: Parsnip – Duolingo for Cooking

#156
post #105

Please, please, please, avoid status cuisines . It's going to be hard to do, because they make good PR. But you will be helping your users a lot more of you hold them off with a ten foot pole. What do I mean by a status cuisine ? They are meals that are intended to show that the cook is a worthy person, rather than that the meal is practical, healthy, and good to eat. Here are some examples: The endurance cuisine: de…

Endurance Cuisine: As long as it's labelled properly, those who have the time, energy, inclination, and/or desire can make the ingredient the long way. Those who don't won't and can sub in pre-prepared ingredients.

2) Hair-shirt cuisine: I'm curious which grains you're talking about. But a lot of the "old world" grains that have become popular are not popular because people find them uncomfortable to eat. They're popular because they taste good. And many people enjoy the additional texture.

3) More expensive ingredients don't have to be better. But they often can be. And in many cases even if the upfront expense is higher the actual value over a period of time may be equivalent and even cheaper. A classic and common example of this is parmesan. Yes, a block of parmesan will be more expensive than the pre-grated stuff. But it will also be more flavorful so you don't need to use as much and will probably last you longer than the pre grated stuff. It will also usually fit recipes a lot better because the pre-grated stuff has anti-caking agents which will ruin recipes.

Re: Show HN: Parsnip – Duolingo for Cooking

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To perhaps be a bit more constructive, and to suggest a way forward... I'd like to see a cooking teaching app that allows users to work through a recipe in varying levels of detail. For example, consider a Lasagna. A lower level recipe may use ricotta for a quick and easy version, a higher level might explain step by step how to make a bechamel, and the "hardest" level may just say "make a bechamel". As a user, being…

> I'd like to see a cooking teaching app that allows users to work through a recipe in varying levels of detail. For example, consider a Lasagna. A lower level recipe may use ricotta for a quick and easy version, a higher level might explain step by step how to make a bechamel, and the "hardest" level may just say "make a bechamel". Can you hear that noise? That's the noise of a million Italians crying. Because of yo…

> Can you hear that noise? That's the noise of a million Italians crying. Because of you. Learn to make 'mother sauces' straight away guys! They're simple and flavorful.

I'm not Italian, but I'm willing to give the OP the benefit of the doubt in the following way:

Have you ever read a professional cookbook ? I (would like to) think that what the OP was saying is that "hardest" level would equate to professional cookbook instructions.

In other words, if you were to look at a professional recipe for Lasagne, it would simply list "n ml Bechamel" as an ingredient and the recipe would simply state "layer using the Bechamel".

i.e. it would not list out the Bechamel ingredients, and nor would it tell you how to make it. The professional cookbook considers that you are reading a recipe for Lasagne. And that as a professional cook, you already know how to make a Bechamel (or already have some in the fridge from your prep). Professional cookbooks do the same for stocks and other preparations such as crème pat.

Re: Show HN: Parsnip – Duolingo for Cooking

#158

> Recipes are surprisingly deceptive. They seem like instructions you can follow, but a more apt analogy is that the recipe is an iceberg and beginner cooks are steaming along on the Titanic. Devil's advocate (and very serious home cook): Food Youtube solves all of these problems in various and (IMO) much more entertaining and informative ways. There's a plethora of content ranging from highly-technical restaurant in…

I appreciate the perspective, it's a common objection. Similar arguments I've heard are that in order to learn to cook, you need to do one of:

- read a lot of cookbooks and understand them

- go watch a ton of YouTube videos and triangulate the best way to do it

- go get a job in a kitchen (essentially, apprentice)

I learn the way you do and I totally get where you're coming from. But this only works for serious autodidacts. For everyone else, doing any of the above is a pain in the butt. So that's the problem we're trying to solve.

The magic of the tech tree is that it addresses the issue of "you can't type what you don't know into Google."

Re: Show HN: Parsnip – Duolingo for Cooking

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really do think a lot of recipes are unnecessarily onerous in some way Cooking is different things for different people. I feel like tech people see it as nothing but sustenance (yay Soylent!), so the idea is for it to be quick, cheap and easy. For other people it's a hobby and they actually enjoy the process. Grinding your own grain or peeling grapes can increase the food quality, and it takes nothing but time,…

There are endless resources for the second type of person; it's the person who wants to make nacho cheese sauce that is underserved. Once you've got them to make that, you got somebody who can also make gravies and bechamel, and you can suggest other things they they might want to try to cook after they're pretty good at nachos.

There are far more resources available for those who don't know how to cook and are just looking for a bunch of shortcuts than for those who want recipes where they may be willing to spend a little more time for a better product.

Almost all the afternoon Food Network cooking shows are about shortcuts and easy ways out (Ina Garten, maybe, used to be the exception but even she's now only focusing on her simpler meals on her cooking show as opposed to the more complex stuff she used to do).

Allrecipes.com is absolutely filled with easy to prepare dishes.

And any more fancy recipe site that includes detailed instructions to, for example, make your own bread, will almost always suggest a store bought alternative you can use instead (NYTimes cooking, Bon Appetit, Serious Eats, etc., will almost always have store bought alternatives suggested).

Re: Show HN: Parsnip – Duolingo for Cooking

#160

I've done a few quizzes on the app now, and I don't get it. The questions feel very contrived, like someone had a quota to fill so just put whatever looked plausible together. They are also _very_ culturally specific. Questions about eggs barely made sense to me being from the UK, with incorrect pack sizes, animal welfare terms, and completely missed our great standards body that makes it easy to know which eggs have…

Cooking has become a very weird thing - people both overrate its difficulty and complexity to the point of phobia..and also consume content of people cooking without ever doing it themselves. So many cooking tik tok etcs are so obviously not good food to make compared to normal stuff.

Scrambled eggs are a good thing to learn for a beginner, and maybe the app does try to teach you the real "hard" part of them: Heat control. If you understand the heat of your stove and your pan, you can make scrambled eggs.

You can learn it by getting a carton of eggs, a stick of butter, and a frying pan. You'll learn how butter burns and gets too hot, and you'll learn when you jump the gun and put the egg in too cold of a pan.

People want steps and skills and tricks. But the real way to learn how to cook is to look at & listen to your pan, taste your food, and then repeat and learn from your mistakes.

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