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TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

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Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#391

Post by Crosseye_Jack »

stetrain wrote: post #385
Crosseye_Jack wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most 2nd hand car sales in the US are sold "As-is", so the buyer has very little recurse after the fact. The consensus is when it comes to 2nd hand vehicle sales is buyer beware and you should be taking the vehicle to be checked over by another garage before finalising the purchase. Last car I purchased (granted a) it was brand new b) I'm in the UK) I purchased the car using my debit card (I kept the recept for ages…

The issue is that the credit card company doesn’t necessarily run through a full legal analysis of the seller’s rights in a transaction when the buyer requests a chargeback. Of course it may eventually all get settled in the seller’s favor in court, but in the meantime the buyer has their vehicle and their money back and it’s on the seller to track them down and sue. So people tend to do person-to-person used vehicle…

But that can be said of any transaction via a card. When ever I've receieved a chargeback (iirc its only happened twice in all my years, but I've been lucky) my payment provider has offered me the ability to dispute the charge back which will send the evidence that the transaction was legitimate back to the bank requesting the chargeback.

At which point you would give the documentation showing that that it was a as-is purchase and a legitimate transaction.

But as I said above, this could happen to any card transaction not just used car sales.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#392

Post by patmcc »

axus wrote: post #323
graeme wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out the poster did, in fact, omit extremely material info from their original post. They sold a used company van via credit card via their stripe account: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32264886 This is not something the business sells, and a huge chargeback risk

Isn't the obviously correct behavior by Stripe to suspend that transaction, without interrupting others? Clearly they are able to identify transactions on a case-by-case basis.

First, that seems to be what happened to OP. They suspended the transaction and are holding funds associated with that transaction.

Second, I posit that having even one (confirmed) suspicious or fraudulent transaction increases the likelihood of having others.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#393

Post by the_watcher »

rchaud wrote: post #366
boringg wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no defender of stripe (or corporations) but the one thing I always find interesting is that a lot of the complaint stories are one sided as the company can't release any information due to privacy. Many times these complaint stories have cases of fraud or other problematic issues and use the public forum to generate publicity. There are cases of people getting caught up inadvertently as well.

What does it matter if it's one-sided? Reading the complaints and the seqience of events give me perspective on whether something like that could happen to me as a platform user. In the real world, I am not going to get Patio11 to respond as he's doing here. I'd get a CSR rep working off a script. So I don't really care what the CEO's POV is.

Patio11 is one of the most responsive public internet users out there. On twitter, he’s not the absolute most responsive, but he has a standing invitation for anyone to contact him about nearly anything on his website, and he takes it very seriously[0]. I know multiple people at Stripe who have been asked to look into things he’s found out about, and he follows up. I won’t claim that he’s perfect about this, but I struggle to come up with anyone at any company of remotely similar scale that is more likely to do this.

Disclaimer: I’ve somewhat recently gotten to know patio11 a bit, but he’d previously responded to my tweets and replied to my emails, long before our paths actually crossed.

[0] https://www.kalzumeus.com/standing-invitation/

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#394

Post by dmonitor »

rchaud wrote: post #366
boringg wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no defender of stripe (or corporations) but the one thing I always find interesting is that a lot of the complaint stories are one sided as the company can't release any information due to privacy. Many times these complaint stories have cases of fraud or other problematic issues and use the public forum to generate publicity. There are cases of people getting caught up inadvertently as well.

What does it matter if it's one-sided? Reading the complaints and the seqience of events give me perspective on whether something like that could happen to me as a platform user. In the real world, I am not going to get Patio11 to respond as he's doing here. I'd get a CSR rep working off a script. So I don't really care what the CEO's POV is.

The one-sidedeness is that the poster could be lying, and Stripe isn't allowed to call them out

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#395

Post by mindslight »

patio11 wrote: post #212
baggachipz wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if the company had some way, any way at all, to reach an actual human being, this wouldn't be a constantly repeated problem on HN and elsewhere.

As I have observed in other contexts ( https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1463749947858165761 ), many people who say "Ugh, I cannot reach a real human" have in fact spoken to several humans, repeatedly and at length, and are imprecisely stating their desire to speak to a person who would agree with their view of the facts and swiftly enact the resolution that they prefer. We offer (human-powered, somewhat obviously?)…

> We offer (human-powered, somewhat obviously?) support via a variety of methods 24/7

> time for us to reply to email is generally a few minutes

These two assertions are conflicting. A few minutes is not nearly enough time for a human to understand and address a support request. So like most companies, it sounds like Stripe is actually running automated support behind a fleshy humanesque interface. Don't delude yourselves into thinking that this counts as "human-powered" support.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#397

Post by robotnikman »

nemothekid wrote: post #325
upupandup wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first glance thought this was a case of a zealous flagging system but upon careful re-reading, I realize this doesn't seem to be an isolated case meaning this guy isn't the only one that had this happen. Which makes me question just how credible Stripe's market valuation is. It's far likely that as we exit the era of cheap capital and expensive debt, the dominoes have begun to fall and companies are doing everythi…

> Any other payment processor that pulls this will immediately be sued, so why are they risking this knowing that TOS isnt the law? What are you talking about? PayPal has been doing this, and worse, for a little over 20 years and has a $100B valuation on the public markets.

At least paypal has a customer service number you can call to get in touch with a real person. Not that they are much better as a company.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#398

Post by jdamon96 »

talideon wrote: post #328
sulam wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is not Patrick Collison. https://www.kalzumeus.com/

Wrong Patrick: kalzumeus is Patrick McKenzie. Patrick Collison's site is patrickcollison.com, and he's 'pc' on Hacker News.

thats why he shared mckenzie's website; he's the commenter

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#399

Post by patmcc »

mindslight wrote: post #395
patio11 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I have observed in other contexts ( https://twitter.com/patio11/status/1463749947858165761 ), many people who say "Ugh, I cannot reach a real human" have in fact spoken to several humans, repeatedly and at length, and are imprecisely stating their desire to speak to a person who would agree with their view of the facts and swiftly enact the resolution that they prefer. We offer (human-powered, somewhat obviously?)…

> We offer (human-powered, somewhat obviously?) support via a variety of methods 24/7 > time for us to reply to email is generally a few minutes These two assertions are conflicting. A few minutes is not nearly enough time for a human to understand and address a support request. So like most companies, it sounds like Stripe is actually running automated support behind a fleshy humanesque interface. Don't delude yours…

Have you ever worked in a support role? A few minutes is plenty for >95% of support requests. Those last few percent can certainly be a doozy though.

Re: TIFU by using Stripe as a payment processor for my small business

#400

Post by stetrain »

Crosseye_Jack wrote: post #391
stetrain wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that the credit card company doesn’t necessarily run through a full legal analysis of the seller’s rights in a transaction when the buyer requests a chargeback. Of course it may eventually all get settled in the seller’s favor in court, but in the meantime the buyer has their vehicle and their money back and it’s on the seller to track them down and sue. So people tend to do person-to-person used vehicle…

But that can be said of any transaction via a card. When ever I've receieved a chargeback (iirc its only happened twice in all my years, but I've been lucky) my payment provider has offered me the ability to dispute the charge back which will send the evidence that the transaction was legitimate back to the bank requesting the chargeback. At which point you would give the documentation showing that that it was a as-i…

It's a large transaction (by most people's day-to-day standards) with usually a random person who you have no business or other relationship with, who takes the car and drives off, hopefully to never be seen or heard from again. A private seller doesn't want to be dealing with credit card chargeback disputes weeks after the fact to get the money they thought they already had.

A used car dealership is better positioned to spend time dealing with chargeback disputes than a private seller, but why bother with extra work when you can just put up a sign that says "no credit cards" and never have to deal with it?

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