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Google Engineer: What I learned in the war

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Re: Google Engineer: What I learned in the war

#12
post #9
post #2

From what I've heard, Google does a particularly good job of taking care of reservists (there are federal laws about not firing, but good companies go beyond this). Outside of government contracting (where it makes a lot of business sense to hire reservists or former military), there don't seem to be a large number of reservists/national guard in the tech community; almost more foreign-country-compulsory-service vete…

there don't seem to be a large number of reservists/national guard in the tech community; Why do you/others think this is? I'm not a US citizen, so that counts me out. But even so I wouldn't become a reservest because I feel I have a lot of unique and valuable skills (engineering, thought leadership in platforms, and media technology) that wouldn't be capitalizable by the military - certainly not as a reservist. I wo…

> rather than volunteer to work a day in a soup kitchen I would be able to bring far more value to a charity by just work for a day doing my normal job and then donating that day's pay to them.

so, have you done either of it?

Re: Google Engineer: What I learned in the war

#13
post #2

From what I've heard, Google does a particularly good job of taking care of reservists (there are federal laws about not firing, but good companies go beyond this). Outside of government contracting (where it makes a lot of business sense to hire reservists or former military), there don't seem to be a large number of reservists/national guard in the tech community; almost more foreign-country-compulsory-service vete…

there don't seem to be a large number of reservists/national guard in the tech community

The economically disadvantaged seem to be overrepresented in the military because of a lack of better options. Techies generally have better options (yes, there are other reasons to join the military).

Re: Google Engineer: What I learned in the war

#14
post #11

I like the point he made about not giving exact instructions on taking a box from point A to B. Looks like it's better to hire smart, capable people and not micromanage them - than it is to hire cheap people and tell them exactly what to do.

you're forgetting that it is military. "Deliver the box to point B" is an order, and non-execution of an order isn't an option. Nothing brings out and motivates creativity in people as effectively as real necessity does.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/the-homemade-weapons-of-libya...

Edit: the precision is a "must-have" of a military order (and is the responsibility of the CO, dual to the responsibility of underlings to carry out the order) and must not be mistaken for micromanagment while absence of micromanagment must not be mistaken for vagueness, what is frequently happens in the non-military, especially corporate, environment where such duality of responsibilities is frequently not recognized/enforced.

Re: Google Engineer: What I learned in the war

#15
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As well, the military is a more diverse organization in the US than almost any tech company. Agreed. I always get irritated when I see people referring to the military as some homogeneous, white-Protestant, politically conservative institution. It's very much not the case. Dan, the subject of this article, studied at Columbia, which has an incredibly large veteran population in the undergraduate student body. From…

Regarding diversity in the military, I can only speak of my own experience, but when I was in the military I found it to be a very interesting atmosphere. Unlike the rest of the US, where race is an extremely touchy subject and anyone bringing it up walks on pins and needles, I found that the military was full of people from all kinds of backgrounds constantly needling each other with jokes, questions, and comments t…

I think in the military people become one more so than just being from the same country. Your shared experiences and understandings bind you together in a way that transcends race. It's similar concept in science fiction where the humans on earth usually stop fighting each other once they discover intelligent life off the planet.

Re: Google Engineer: What I learned in the war

#16
post #11

I like the point he made about not giving exact instructions on taking a box from point A to B. Looks like it's better to hire smart, capable people and not micromanage them - than it is to hire cheap people and tell them exactly what to do.

Many of the enlisted men in the military aren't all that smart, and most of 'em are pretty darn cheap.

If there's a takeaway lesson it's that even not-so-smart, cheap-to-hire people are actually surprisingly capable of doing stuff, if you create a management environment where they have to do it and know they aren't gonna get any mollycoddling from the higher-ups. Here is the task. Go do it. Come back to me when it's done.

Re: Google Engineer: What I learned in the war

#17
post #9
post #2

From what I've heard, Google does a particularly good job of taking care of reservists (there are federal laws about not firing, but good companies go beyond this). Outside of government contracting (where it makes a lot of business sense to hire reservists or former military), there don't seem to be a large number of reservists/national guard in the tech community; almost more foreign-country-compulsory-service vete…

there don't seem to be a large number of reservists/national guard in the tech community; Why do you/others think this is? I'm not a US citizen, so that counts me out. But even so I wouldn't become a reservest because I feel I have a lot of unique and valuable skills (engineering, thought leadership in platforms, and media technology) that wouldn't be capitalizable by the military - certainly not as a reservist. I wo…

I agree with some of your sentiment, but I think you don't have accurate information on all of the military. The big deal with the reserves/NG (in the Army, at least) is that there is a huge difference among units; the majority of army PSYOPs capability is actually in the reserve component, and is as good as anything in active duty; there are both active duty and reserve units in other specialties which are pretty widely regarded as incapable/ineffective. It kind of becomes an evaporative cooling thing -- good people who end up in bad units find ways to leave, and are attracted to great units. Basically the same as companies in the civilian world.

In some cases, the services (and government as a whole, and big companies) don't take advantage of pre-existing skills or aptitudes. In other cases, they do -- there are incentive/recruiting/fast-track systems for certain types of professionals. They've gotten better about this since becoming an all-volunteer force vs. draft. The big problem is that there is a "military way" to do a lot of things, largely focused on big-vendor enterprise in the IT space, and you have to work within that. Getting affiliated with a lab, DARPA, etc. is probably the way to use more interesting tech.

One problem I have personally is that they're very credential-focused; as a high school and college dropout, I'd be kind of screwed. Otherwise I'd be really interested in reserve/NG in certain specialties (psyops, civil affairs, infrastructure parts of embedded advisor teams, rotary/uav aviation, sigint, SAR, medical, diving). It would also be really difficult for a startup founder vs. an employee at a larger tech company.

For the donation/volunteer argument, rather than just donating money, my plan is to do NGO work on the side, and hopefully eventually be able to set up a specialty communications-in-conflict/disaster zones infrastructure NGO. A lot of charities ARE saddled by large numbers of unskilled volunteers (or at least without specific relevant skills), and structure their operations to be labor vs. skill intensive.

Re: Google Engineer: What I learned in the war

#18
post #16
post #11

I like the point he made about not giving exact instructions on taking a box from point A to B. Looks like it's better to hire smart, capable people and not micromanage them - than it is to hire cheap people and tell them exactly what to do.

Many of the enlisted men in the military aren't all that smart, and most of 'em are pretty darn cheap. If there's a takeaway lesson it's that even not-so-smart, cheap-to-hire people are actually surprisingly capable of doing stuff, if you create a management environment where they have to do it and know they aren't gonna get any mollycoddling from the higher-ups. Here is the task. Go do it. Come back to me when it's…

The argument of elite selection vs. elite training is interesting. I think USMC, particularly in WW2 and in general during the draft period, had general-population induction, but through training and organization produced an elite force. Other elite units, like the Navy SEALs, seem to focus on elite recruitment and selection.

I'm not sure which works better for a tech company. Clearly only the USMC process scales once you need to hire a lot of people.

Re: Google Engineer: What I learned in the war

#19
post #15
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding diversity in the military, I can only speak of my own experience, but when I was in the military I found it to be a very interesting atmosphere. Unlike the rest of the US, where race is an extremely touchy subject and anyone bringing it up walks on pins and needles, I found that the military was full of people from all kinds of backgrounds constantly needling each other with jokes, questions, and comments t…

I think in the military people become one more so than just being from the same country. Your shared experiences and understandings bind you together in a way that transcends race. It's similar concept in science fiction where the humans on earth usually stop fighting each other once they discover intelligent life off the planet.

There are actually a lot of people in the US military who are not even US citizens (and especially who were not citizens at entry) -- lots of people from US territories, the Philippines (especially in the Navy, to the point where they're considered a "mafia" in mid-ranks in some areas), etc. It's partially because it's a fast-track to US permanent residency and citizenship.

Re: Google Engineer: What I learned in the war

#20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there don't seem to be a large number of reservists/national guard in the tech community; Why do you/others think this is? I'm not a US citizen, so that counts me out. But even so I wouldn't become a reservest because I feel I have a lot of unique and valuable skills (engineering, thought leadership in platforms, and media technology) that wouldn't be capitalizable by the military - certainly not as a reservist. I wo…

> rather than volunteer to work a day in a soup kitchen I would be able to bring far more value to a charity by just work for a day doing my normal job and then donating that day's pay to them. so, have you done either of it?

Yup, both.
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