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ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology

chicagoreader.com

71–80 of 320 posts

Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology

#71
post #7

My understanding is that "contempt of court" is used to either punish someone's "bad" behavior or compel them to do something the court believes they are required to do. In this case, wouldn't they just keep getting punished for contempt (racking up fines presumably) forever until they fulfil the court's request?

My understanding is after being found in contempt you then try to appeal that. Disclaimer: Definitely not a lawyer by any definition.

Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology

#72
post #49

To my knowledge, you only need 3 active points to triangulate a location[0]. [0]: https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/triangulation-locate-earth...

Think about how echoes from buildings and cars mess up this simple model.

Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology

#73
post #5

(Not the OP) For background, this is the company that supposedly locates gunshot sounds in cities (and sometimes battlefields) by microphone triangulation. It doesn't work all that well and is selectively deployed in minority areas and is used by police to selectively enforce crimes, sometimes also altering the evidence. Vice did a few articles on them and the company tried to sue but had it tossed out. Shady all aro…

Jackson MS uses shot spotter and is 80% black, and no, they aren't deploying it in predominantly white "minority" neighborhoods.

Do you seriously think by "minority" they meant at the local populace level and not national populace level? When has that ever been the colloquial use?

Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology

#74
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they meant races or ethnicities that are a minority in the US at large, since that's how the term "minority" is typically used

Sure, but if a city that is predominantly black, whose government is predominantly black, decides to use shot spotter, it would be silly to claim that it is being deployed in minority areas in order to oppress minorities.

You win! The commenter made a grave semantic mistake by not adding "in the US" to "minority" and now their comment is completely meaningless and without merit.

Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology

#75

What does it mean for a corporation to be held in contempt of court? I guess they will pay a fine and never have to produce those documents?

Usually the idea is to compel discovery, so it would be a fine of several thousand dollars a day until they give up the info.

Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology

#76
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they meant races or ethnicities that are a minority in the US at large, since that's how the term "minority" is typically used

Sure, but if a city that is predominantly black, whose government is predominantly black, decides to use shot spotter, it would be silly to claim that it is being deployed in minority areas in order to oppress minorities.

> it would be silly to claim that it is being deployed in minority areas.

No, it would be silly to claim it's being deployed only in those areas.

Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology

#77
Strange. Probably the embarrassing parts relate to the after the fact reclassification of reports after the fact by Shotspotter employees.

The first system was in Redwood City, CA. I once went to a talk by the designer. They had leased analog audio lines to each microphone. At the microphone end, they had something like a logarithmic amplifier, which traded dynamic range for frequency response. The idea is that you don't want to saturate when it picks up a bang. The audio feeds went to an IBM PC at the police station with some multichannel analog input cards. A program written in LabView running under DOS did the analysis. It was looking for a sharp upward spike from multiple microphones. Then it took the time deltas and computed a position. No attempt to compensate for bounces off buildings, etc. Fairly coarse resolution, down to the side of a block, not a building. It was pretty simple.

Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology

#78
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they meant races or ethnicities that are a minority in the US at large, since that's how the term "minority" is typically used

Sure, but if a city that is predominantly black, whose government is predominantly black, decides to use shot spotter, it would be silly to claim that it is being deployed in minority areas in order to oppress minorities.

As someone who has lived in majority-black towns in the south most of my life, those words are simply not used in the way you are using them. Blacks in the south are universally considered a minority, even in those geographies where they are actually the demographic majority.

Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology

#79
post #8

This is an audio surveillance company which sells itself to cities as a gunshot detection system. Based on how they appear to be acting in court, it would be reasonable to assume that either: (1) Their methodology is about to be debunked, or; (2) It's about to be revealed that they were working with police to allow them to manufacture reasons to arrest people.

Would results of discovery be public record? If so, I could also see: 3) They don't want their "secret sauce" made publicly available. That would both open them up to commercial competition, and make their product less reliable in court, as anti-Shotspotter experts would start figuring out how to effectively argue against the product's methodology. In general I think technology like this should have to be fully trans…

I think this company is probably more successful the less potential buyers know about it, the product sounds like total trash to me.

Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology

#80
I would like to post a slightly different angle to the discussion.

Assumption: the majority of commenters are working in technology fields, and perhaps even technology startups.

Let’s say that you have developed some software product that works pretty well for certain applications, but is certainly not perfect. But it works well enough that your customers are paying you to use your product.

Now, your customers decide to use your product in a way that you have neither intended nor prescribed. (In fact, your product comes with a disclaimer.)

In doing so, they end up in court. And you get hauled into the middle of it.

Should you have to expose your technology? This could endanger your entire business.

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