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Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#411

Post by toolz »

thereare5lights wrote: post #406
toolz wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so many "think of the children" arguments without even addressing the fact that literally no one starves in the U.S. for lack of food availability (mental issues can and do lead to starvation though, unfortunately). I for one don't think the federal government should have anything to do with our school systems. That is not their expertise, not their domain and they don't need any temptations or distractions to use th…

> that literally no one starves in the U.S. for lack of food availability https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/fo... The metric of whether or not someone literally dies of starvation is a pathetic metric.

did you read the definition of the very lowest tier of "very low food security" metric?

It's hilarious, 100 years ago people would laugh at such "hardships". Food availability isn't a problem in the U.S. for all but the extreme outliers. Now, education about nutrition is very likely a problem, but even the poorest of the poor can readily get the nutrition they need if they knew what they needed, but obviously even our rich don't understand nutrition.

The harshest measurement on the chart was someone who didn't eat for a full day over a 3 month period. I fast for many days at a time _because_ it's healthy. Our ancestors did not eat three meals a day and as a result our bodies are extremely adept at having irregular eating schedules.

We have an obesity epidemic in our poorest demographic. That says about everything that needs to be said, if you ask me.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#412

Post by DubiousPusher »

koheripbal wrote: post #403
DubiousPusher wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, the natsec Republican your polity elected did have to overcome a natsec Democrat or visa-versa. I encourage you to attend some meetings of your local party Republican or Democrat (whichever is dominant) and see how the people you get to elect are chosen. What you'll find is the folks controlling that process are deeply under the influence of a status quo and that most unorthodoxy there is very quickly marginali…

Right, but that's a feature not bug. People who have been involved in politics and have experience with budgets and governing SHOULD be the ones making decisions. Next time you get heart surgery, ask for the fringe thinking fresh college grad and see how that goes.

I'm not talking about crackpots. I'm talking often qualified people who don't match the entrepreneur, small business owner, veteran, firefighter, nurse template that local bourgeoisie party leaders tend to endorse and find funding for.

IMO, this preference has lead to a clear preference for statism and state violence amongst our elected officials as the people who rise through the rabks tend toward an implicit trust in the institutions of the martial state from the criminal justice sysyem to a standing military.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#413

Post by koheripbal »

ipsin wrote: post #246
jedberg wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that this isn't just a handout to business, but also a national security issue. Having 90% of our chips made in Taiwan means we have to spend a bunch of resources protecting Taiwan. The long term plan here is to bring this manufacturing back into the US so that we don't have to protect Taiwan anymore. (Please note I'm not stating my opinion on if this is good or bad, simply stating the end game they are…

If this were true, there would be a reduction in US military spending, but I'm... very much not buying that.

That isn't a logical statement.

Global risk is increasing dramatically, so it only makes sense for net military expenditures to increase also.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#414

Post by over_bridge »

ekianjo wrote: post #333
Someone1234 wrote: post #129

It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that . Unfortunately 52 senators…

> because it was "too expensive" at $11B Schools meals are pure cost, they don't bring anything back. It's not like we have mass starvation going on at the moment either. Also, why "free meals" when parents can afford to pay for it? If you have parents who are under a certain threshold of revenues, give their kids free meals, but let's not do a one-size fits all policy, this is not 1950 anymore.

> Schools meals are pure cost, they don't bring anything back. It's not like we have mass starvation going on at the moment either.

They are not a pure cost, they are an investment in your next generation of humans (or human resources if you are that way inclined). Poor nutrition leads to worse academic and social outcomes which limits opportunities for poorer kids. Good food can boost their quality of life, health and ability to contribute to the world.

> Also, why "free meals" when parents can afford to pay for it? If you have parents who are under a certain threshold of revenues, give their kids free meals, but let's not do a one-size fits all policy, this is not 1950 anymore.

Every time you add a condition to a benefit like this, you have to create a whole government department around it. Many salaries, managers, cost of equipment and rent and energy. All to go through and classify each person against the threshold, then build reporting to find those who don't qualify, communicate this to them (so a helpdesk and appeal system needs to be created), an enforcement system, a penalty system, long waits for support or decisions, having to update your financial status if it changes etc. All of this wasteful bureaucracy just to be stingy towards kids.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#415

Post by guelo »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #285
rat87 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it was a wise and practical decision. And the fillibuster has always been a stupid accident of the rules. It delayed civil rights bills by over a decade Everyone knew that McConnell was lying and would have overturned the fillibuster on judges the second a supreme court fillibuster started. And we would have gotten the same extremist supreme court that laughs at restaint and takes away fundamental rights

Apparently he had the option to do it under Bush when Democrats were obstructing Bush's nominees to the federal courts, and he chose not to, so the evidence suggests that he would not have just removed the filibuster for the fun of it.

Imagine McConell blaming Democrats for his own unpopular actions.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#416

Post by QuarterReptile »

bloodyplonker22 wrote: post #124
pm90 wrote: post #20

WaPo article, which has more details about the bill and less details about what different “personalities” are saying: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/27/senate-ch... . Overall, it looks great. We absolutely need to fund more semiconductor manufacturing. Losing that ability to China/Taiwan was just a terrible strategic mistake. The US hasn’t lost this battle (over semiconductors) just yet. While curren…

> Losing that ability to China/Taiwan was just a terrible strategic mistake. More like losing that ability to Taiwan's TSMC and South Korea's Samsung. China's SMIC is very far behind and has insignificant market share. Additionally, it's rather insulting to non-communists when you mishmash together China and Taiwan.

>China's SMIC is very far behind

I think you misread the thrust of this comment. Commenter was likely alluding not to R&D, but an amphibious invasion, as to how it would end up being China. Obviously I don't know how much of that infrastructure would persist to be carried off after that invasion, but it would reasonably be considered 'lost' to the US.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#417

Post by powerhour »

mathattack wrote: post #360
tacotacotaco wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at the house of the owner of a company I worked for. I mentioned my amusement at seeing a school bus in this very rural area on the way to his house. He complained that he didn’t have kids so he didn’t see why he should have to pay for that. I replied that, as my employer, he was benefiting from my public school education. That ended that conversation.

It’s not defunding education. It’s saying rather than waste money on something unnecessary over here (like free lunches for the wealthy) let’s spend it on something better (like teacher salaries).

How much higher would their salaries be?

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#418

Post by dubcee349 »

Someone1234 wrote: post #129

It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that . Unfortunately 52 senators…

And usually its on the basis that 10 people may commit fraud to take advantage of of a benefit. Corporations would never take advantage of these types of agreements. /s

While this still may be a good idea to help get more semiconductor production in the US and could reduce ongoing inflation by increasing supply it doesn't mean we shouldn't invest in people as well including plans for school meals. I think we are still figuring out how much of the inflation is supply related and how much is because the cost of money has been too cheap.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#419

Post by dubcee349 »

tablespoon wrote: post #247
Someone1234 wrote: post #129

It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that . Unfortunately 52 senators…

> It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that. That's misleading framing…

You could also say that a few very good traders in the senate would greatly benefit from this passing as well. There are a number of reasons this passed.

This is not going to increase skilled labor in a meaningful way so I would not frame it as providing jobs that will get people out of subsidized programs.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#420

Post by dubcee349 »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #294
tablespoon wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that. That's misleading framing…

> More accurately: there's more consensus around national security spending than social spending. Is there? Or is there just more consensus among the elite and Ivy League educated who dominate security discussion and policy?

Nancy Pelosi's 2022 record breaking stock returns depend on this passing.
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