The US should mandate every gunshot be accompanied by a loud ultrasonic tone that can easily identify the occurrence to any recording device. The tone could eventually be modulated with the guns serial number.
ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology
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Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology
#12My understanding is that "contempt of court" is used to either punish someone's "bad" behavior or compel them to do something the court believes they are required to do. In this case, wouldn't they just keep getting punished for contempt (racking up fines presumably) forever until they fulfil the court's request?
> Discovery orders such as these typically cannot be appealed before final judgment is issued. However, contempt-of-court sanctions for violating a discovery order can be appealed. The request for a so-called “friendly” contempt-of-court order is designed to allow ShotSpotter to effectively appeal the discovery order by appealing the contempt order.
Sounds strategic
Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology
#13This is an audio surveillance company which sells itself to cities as a gunshot detection system. Based on how they appear to be acting in court, it would be reasonable to assume that either: (1) Their methodology is about to be debunked, or; (2) It's about to be revealed that they were working with police to allow them to manufacture reasons to arrest people.
Would results of discovery be public record? If so, I could also see: 3) They don't want their "secret sauce" made publicly available. That would both open them up to commercial competition, and make their product less reliable in court, as anti-Shotspotter experts would start figuring out how to effectively argue against the product's methodology. In general I think technology like this should have to be fully trans…
Please report to the nearest processing center for your attempted libel against the police-industrial complex.
Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology
#14So when is the CEO going to jail for contempt? Or does that not apply to companies, only actual human beings?
In the US you can receive 6 months in jail for contempt. Perhaps the company should cease trading for the same period.
Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology
#15This is an audio surveillance company which sells itself to cities as a gunshot detection system. Based on how they appear to be acting in court, it would be reasonable to assume that either: (1) Their methodology is about to be debunked, or; (2) It's about to be revealed that they were working with police to allow them to manufacture reasons to arrest people.
Would results of discovery be public record? If so, I could also see: 3) They don't want their "secret sauce" made publicly available. That would both open them up to commercial competition, and make their product less reliable in court, as anti-Shotspotter experts would start figuring out how to effectively argue against the product's methodology. In general I think technology like this should have to be fully trans…
This is a reasonable argument, but I'm not sure you're aware of allegations of this company altering evidence to better fit a police narrative: https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8xbq/police-are-telling-sh...
I sincerely doubt there's any secret sauce to protect when they have "analysts" sitting around regularly "correcting" evidence.
Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology
#16Another ADE 651? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651
Wow, thanks for the link. I had no idea about this. Promotional material issued by ATSC claimed that the ADE 651 could detect such item as guns, ammunition, drugs, truffles, human bodies, contraband ivory and bank notes at distances of up to 1 kilometre (0.62 mi), underground, through walls, underwater or even from aircraft at an altitude of up to 5 kilometres (3.1 mi).[12] In a promotional video, McCormick claimed t…
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Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology
#17This is an audio surveillance company which sells itself to cities as a gunshot detection system. Based on how they appear to be acting in court, it would be reasonable to assume that either: (1) Their methodology is about to be debunked, or; (2) It's about to be revealed that they were working with police to allow them to manufacture reasons to arrest people.
What is the likely outcome of this? Can ShotSpotter be compelled to disclose?
They are being ordered to disclose and they are refusing to do it. The article says the lawyer requested to be held in "friendly contempt." I'm pretty sure that doesn't exist. It would probably be more accurate to say that the lawyer conceded the company was in contempt (i.e. they were refusing the order to produce and maybe even conceding it was legal) and was requesting a light sanction. The strategy seems rather bold.
I am not versed in Illinois contempt law, but judges have very broad constitutional authority to sanction people or companies for intentional failure to comply with a lawful order. In this case, you could expect the judge to do something like order the company to pay five thousand dollars per day until they disclose the records.
There could be an argument that the judge could legally order the sheriff to seize their servers or throw the CEO in jail until the company complies, but for some reason stuff like that doesn't seem to ever happen in the corporate context.
Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology
#18Another ADE 651? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651
Wow, thanks for the link. I had no idea about this. Promotional material issued by ATSC claimed that the ADE 651 could detect such item as guns, ammunition, drugs, truffles, human bodies, contraband ivory and bank notes at distances of up to 1 kilometre (0.62 mi), underground, through walls, underwater or even from aircraft at an altitude of up to 5 kilometres (3.1 mi).[12] In a promotional video, McCormick claimed t…
I remember during the US invasion of Iraq when it made the news that coalition forces were using them. The company was just one of many that made billions of US dollars just disappear into an Iraq-sized hole https://www.cnbc.com/2014/06/19/how-the-us-lost-billions-ove...
Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology
#19The US should mandate every gunshot be accompanied by a loud ultrasonic tone that can easily identify the occurrence to any recording device. The tone could eventually be modulated with the guns serial number.
No post body was provided.
Re: ShotSpotter requests to be held in contempt rather than disclose its methodology
#20"Discovery orders such as these typically cannot be appealed before final judgment is issued. However, contempt-of-court sanctions for violating a discovery order can be appealed. The request for a so-called “friendly” contempt-of-court order is designed to allow ShotSpotter to effectively appeal the discovery order by appealing the contempt order."