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Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#381

Post by [deleted] »

tablespoon wrote: post #247
Someone1234 wrote: post #129

It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that . Unfortunately 52 senators…

> It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that. That's misleading framing…

[deleted]

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#382

Post by [deleted] »

jedberg wrote: post #240
Someone1234 wrote: post #129

It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that . Unfortunately 52 senators…

Keep in mind that this isn't just a handout to business, but also a national security issue. Having 90% of our chips made in Taiwan means we have to spend a bunch of resources protecting Taiwan. The long term plan here is to bring this manufacturing back into the US so that we don't have to protect Taiwan anymore. (Please note I'm not stating my opinion on if this is good or bad, simply stating the end game they are…

[deleted]

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#384

Post by kayson »

diordiderot wrote: post #310
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy doesn't mean everyone gets what they want. You are not the only constituent with a voice.

Median earners and top 1% disagree on 11% of legislation. Of that 11%, there is a 1% chance the resulting vote aligns with the preferences of the median earner

Source?

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#385

Post by pclmulqdq »

res0nat0r wrote: post #361
Clubber wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No it was a wise and practical decision. Well the Democrats just lost all chance of any new gun control and will probably have some gun control repealed. Not only that, they lost the power of Democrat controlled states to enact gun control at the state level and will have much of state gun control repealed. They completely lost the right to abortion at the federal/constitutional level as well. What did they gain for…

The GOP in two years from now if they control Congress will ignore the filibuster and pass a national abortion ban at the federal level at the first opportunity. Anyone believing these folks haven't been lying or won't be complete hypocrites by now are living in an alternate reality.

You literally don't know that though. All signs point to them not doing that, because allowing abortions is actually popular. The only people telling you that Republicans will do that are Democrats. Also, even if they take a majority, they won't have a veto-proof majority, so there is no reason to go nuclear in the Senate when Biden is going to veto everything they do.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#386

Post by jobgh »

runarberg wrote: post #376
jobgh wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You honestly think tens of millions in lobbying efforts cause a tens of billions return on investment? Why is it so insanely cheap? Maybe our elected representatives simply agree that national security is a priority just like the people who voted them into office?

I doubt it. The parallels of this rhetoric from the war on terror is stark. You can put anything under the umbrella of national security, and your average senator is perfectly aware of that. A theoretical threat to semiconductor distribution pails in comparison to the actual threat of climate change or the real threat of poverty which millions of Americans are facing. No, I don’t believe the senators looked at this w…

Securing core resources has been a long standing national security concern for countries. Also, there’s a good chunk of populist isolationist sentiment in the zeitgeist.

Senators aren’t unbiased. They’re biased towards what their voters want. If they step out of line, they’ll likely get crushed.

I don’t think money in politics is very explanatory. It seems a basic understanding of the 3 branches and the interplay between the states and federal government explains a lot.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#387

Post by richbell »

jobgh wrote: post #331
InvisibleCities wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing do with people’s civic engagement levels, and everything to do with money. The semiconductor industry gets a massive subsidy because they spend tens of millions of dollars on lobbying - impoverished schoolchildren get left to starve because they don’t.

You honestly think tens of millions in lobbying efforts cause a tens of billions return on investment? Why is it so insanely cheap? Maybe our elected representatives simply agree that national security is a priority just like the people who voted them into office?

> You honestly think tens of millions in lobbying efforts cause a tens of billions return on investment? Why is it so insanely cheap?

This is exactly how lobbying works, and it's depressing how insanely cheap our countries are being sold for.

- https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/01/06/144737864/forg...

- https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2019/05/14/how...

For example, if a corporation doesn't like that the IRS is scrutinizing them they can just lobby congress to gut the IRS.

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-irs-decided-to-get-to...

Think you can have an effect by contacting your elected officials? Public preference has almost no impact on what legislation gets passed. Not to mention all the gerrymandering...

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli...

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#388

Post by ch4s3 »

ren_engineer wrote: post #116
pm90 wrote: post #20

WaPo article, which has more details about the bill and less details about what different “personalities” are saying: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/27/senate-ch... . Overall, it looks great. We absolutely need to fund more semiconductor manufacturing. Losing that ability to China/Taiwan was just a terrible strategic mistake. The US hasn’t lost this battle (over semiconductors) just yet. While curren…

main problem is that we are rewarding companies for being disloyal and offshoring in the first place, now they win again with free money after raking in profits for decades. We should have some funding for smaller companies and R&D but also massive tariffs to force companies to bring manufacturing back

TSMC straight out competed the 1st movers in the chip space. They’re not dominant because American companies moved their own factories to Taiwan. It was homegrown and they really nailed it.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#389

Post by yieldcrv »

Jensson wrote: post #370
yieldcrv wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just need an external enemy. in this case China. You can bridge consensus on all sides when there is a boogeyman that isn't another American.

China provides free school lunches though, isn't it a problem if American schools can't compete?

Then you need to present it to Congress that way

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#390

Post by djmips »

WebbWeaver wrote: post #37
pm90 wrote: post #20

WaPo article, which has more details about the bill and less details about what different “personalities” are saying: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/27/senate-ch... . Overall, it looks great. We absolutely need to fund more semiconductor manufacturing. Losing that ability to China/Taiwan was just a terrible strategic mistake. The US hasn’t lost this battle (over semiconductors) just yet. While curren…

Can we not frame this as a battle or even a war? The US lost this capability a long time ago due to labor costs and natural resource consumption. From the labor cost and natural resource consumption a operation of this size can easily fail. We need more partners in this not just a handout. This action should have little to no input on any globalized leverage system. For this to be successful we need more partners

Can someone else corroborate that is something the US lost because of labor costs? We are constantly told it's R&D and infrastructure costs. How much of that is labor costs?

It almost feels like labor costs is a good story to salve the ego when the US was simply beat on tech and tech investment.

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