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Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#341

Post by fleddr »

tootie wrote: post #287
fleddr wrote: post #254

Fairly cynical comments on this thread, many trying to uphold American values like "free market", "protectionism is bad", "what about the consumer", "not from my tax money". I find those remarks pretty naive. Every major power block heavily subsidizes strategic industries, now and forever. It's in no way new or remarkable, nor does it violate some principle. Most of the above concepts are pure fiction. Semiconductors…

Here's my cynical take: This bill will subsidize a lot of jobs when we already have zero slack in our labor market. I think it's an excellent target for spending and would have a positive multiplier in normal times but in 2022 this seems likely to just goose inflation another inch. Unless we actually start seeing cyclical job losses finally hit right when this money starts being spent. Which is entirely possible.

Still missing the point. You concerns mean absolutely nothing when the essentials in your society break down.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#342

Post by pessimizer »

notyourwork wrote: post #309
DubiousPusher wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More accurately: there's more consensus around national security spending than social spending. Is there? Or is there just more consensus among the elite and Ivy League educated who dominate security discussion and policy?

What answer do you expect to get to your argumentative question?

I'm not them, but it's an invitation for a different answer than the one that seems obviously true. I don't think that it's constructive or less "argumentative" to work to come up with a framing for a question that makes it seem less one sided; making the answer less obvious is the job of people who have a different opinion.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#343

Post by onepointsixC »

01100011 wrote: post #16

Such a monumental scam and a gross theft from taxpayers. Companies making billions of dollars in profits don't need free money. I could be onboard with a subsidized loan, but handouts are not needed. FWIW, I work at a company that stands to benefit from this bill. Does the US need to secure reliable semiconductor supply chains free of China? Sure. This is not the most cost effective way to do it.

So what is the most cost effective way to do so? China's pouring hundreds of billions in subsidies into fabs. South Korea is pouring hundreds of billions in subsidies.

Tariffs alone would only allow for domestic balancing of those subsidies but lose you the global market. So again, what would you recommend instead.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#344

Post by anjbe »

rat87 wrote: post #264
Clubber wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In 2013, Senator Harry Reid did it for federal judges (and not supreme court judges). Yes, it was an extremely aggressive and short sighted thing for him to do. Most people don't know this story though, so it seems the Democratic Party gets a pass. Here's McConnell lambasting Reid about it in 2013. https://www.c-span.org/video/?316395-12/minority-leader-mcco... >It appears to have led to an era of unprecedented judi…

No it was a wise and practical decision. And the fillibuster has always been a stupid accident of the rules. It delayed civil rights bills by over a decade Everyone knew that McConnell was lying and would have overturned the fillibuster on judges the second a supreme court fillibuster started. And we would have gotten the same extremist supreme court that laughs at restaint and takes away fundamental rights

The Democrats could have been smarter tactically. Trump’s first SC nominee was Gorsuch, certainly conservative but a stellar jurist, and an uncharacteristically good pick from Trump (compare to the other names on his 2016 shortlist). The Democrats had no cards besides obstruction, which would certainly lead McConnell to kill the filibuster. If they had made the reasonable guess that Trump’s next pick would be easier to beat, saved their powder, and reluctantly let Gorsuch through, McConnell would have had to kill the filibuster for Kavanaugh. For Kavanaugh, a far more controversial pick than Gorsuch, he wouldn’t have had the votes.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#345

Post by twawaaay »

Someone1234 wrote: post #129

It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that . Unfortunately 52 senators…

This is flawed logic.

Security is what allows everything else to exist. You can't just say "Let's liquidate military and spend all that money on children". This would last only shortly until China or somebody else invades US.

Now, I am not saying to not pay for meals. Investing directly in children is probably one of the better ways to improve future outlook of a country.

I am just saying your logic is flawed and there is no easy way to compare the two.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#346

Post by rurp »

cal5k wrote: post #284
lvspiff wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats the abortion ruling in a nutshell - return it to the states and let the voters decide. However at the same time we have rulings saying gun rights are a federal issue and a state cannot regulate how permits are given out the way they want (although there are many nuances there), essentially making it a constitutional issue due to the 2nd amendment. So in other words if it's the will of the country we need to pas…

> essentially making it a constitutional issue due to the 2nd amendment. Yes, because that's how the American constitution works. If you think something else should have similar protections - or if you don't like the second amendment and think it should be repealed - lobby for a new amendment. Until then, it's the highest law in the land and is on equal footing with any constitutional protection, regardless of your p…

Oh to live in such a world... Unfortunately the Supreme Court is not a compiler that returns rulings from some objective process. The justices have massive leeway to decide how to interpret every part of the constitution, and they do so to align their rulings with their own personal and political goals. If we swapped this court with 9 other judges they would return very different rulings on the exact same cases.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#347

Post by Splendor »

twawaaay wrote: post #345
Someone1234 wrote: post #129

It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that . Unfortunately 52 senators…

This is flawed logic. Security is what allows everything else to exist. You can't just say "Let's liquidate military and spend all that money on children". This would last only shortly until China or somebody else invades US. Now, I am not saying to not pay for meals. Investing directly in children is probably one of the better ways to improve future outlook of a country. I am just saying your logic is flawed and the…

The military is full of young people who grew up in poverty. It might be good for national security if more of them didn't have nutritional deficiencies. They aren't separate issues.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#348

Post by doctor_eval »

twawaaay wrote: post #345
Someone1234 wrote: post #129

It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that . Unfortunately 52 senators…

This is flawed logic. Security is what allows everything else to exist. You can't just say "Let's liquidate military and spend all that money on children". This would last only shortly until China or somebody else invades US. Now, I am not saying to not pay for meals. Investing directly in children is probably one of the better ways to improve future outlook of a country. I am just saying your logic is flawed and the…

The environment is what allows everything else to exist. By your logic, that should be the #1 spending priority. And that’s only the lowest hanging of the rotten fruit of this argument.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#349

Post by maxerickson »

Grim-444 wrote: post #201
mhneu wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlikely, because many states then cut those assistance programs when given the opportunity. It's more likely that the 'state' argument is a way to achieve their ideological ends (cutting the program.) That said, this bill is a very positive development. Investing in local manufacturing and R&D is a great idea, and it will help the economy. Hopefully it will efficient and money will not be captured by rent-seekers or…

Isn't that how it's supposed to work? The state is supposed to pass laws that represent the will of its constituents. If the majority of the people living in the state are opposed to such a program, then they shouldn't have such a program. The scope of the federal government is supposed to be for coordinating cross-state stuff that states alone can't decide for themselves.

How big of a majority needs to decide that the federal government should be what they want and not what you think it is supposed to be before it can change?

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#350

Post by twawaaay »

doctor_eval wrote: post #348
twawaaay wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is flawed logic. Security is what allows everything else to exist. You can't just say "Let's liquidate military and spend all that money on children". This would last only shortly until China or somebody else invades US. Now, I am not saying to not pay for meals. Investing directly in children is probably one of the better ways to improve future outlook of a country. I am just saying your logic is flawed and the…

The environment is what allows everything else to exist. By your logic, that should be the #1 spending priority. And that’s only the lowest hanging of the rotten fruit of this argument.

Security is at the top of all needs.

A country that can't defend itself will be pray to everybody else and will not be able to do anything about environment or education.

You can bitch and moan all you want. Go visit Ukraine and see what happens when you live in a country that can't defend itself. Everything else is being put to side. Do you think they are discussing how much they should be spending to help with the effort to control global warming?

The simple fact is that having US reliant on chips supplied by a hostile power will eventually be US downfall.

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