Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy • Hacker News Board

Re: Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy

#311

Post by drusepth » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 9:22 PM UTC

FredPret wrote: post #267

asdff wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't blame them tbh. On a whole species level, why are we inventing the wheel hundreds of separate times just to satisfy pedantic legalese? Any alien observing earth would think we are idiots and clearly nothing to be worried about because we do stuff like this, in the name of profits usually, instead of just sharing ideas openly with each other.

Actually it's pretty smart to reward the inventive ones and punish the freeloaders, or else there'd be a rush to become a freeloader and stop the hard work of inventing - leading to species-wide collapse.

Within the context of this comment thread ("freeloaders" copying the R&D of the "inventive ones"), it seems like the opposite is true for global innovation: inventive ones are being punished by freeloaders copying their work and being able to offer it for a lower price, due to not having to recoup R&D costs/investments (among other factors).

Re: Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy

#312

Post by Theodores » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 9:23 PM UTC

flerchin wrote: post #177

They make gobs and gobs of money, that's the signal, and they're optimizing for it. I tend to think that social media is harmful, for everyone. Send pictures of your kids to your grandmother directly.

Hello WhatApp!

In my family that is how pictures of grandchildren get to grandparents.

It is a closed loop. The only people that care about each other are in the loop and there are no random gawkers.

Re: Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy

#313

Post by t0mas88 » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 9:23 PM UTC

biztos wrote: post #297

Animats wrote: post #71

The key point here is that TikTok is now beating all the US social networks. This may be the beginning of the end for what Silicon Valley calls "tech", but is just ads with social content. Peak Facebook was in Q2 2021.[1] Instagram is losing to TikTok. (If you think the "metaverse" is going to be important in the social space, check out what's happening in China in that area. While the US has been distracted by the N…

I'm a huge admirer of TikTok and love to use it -- once a week only! -- but I sort of agree with the US government that it's crazy to give that much of (mostly) your youth's attention to an adversary. However I find it baffling that all the VC in the Global West is unable to come up with a popular alternative, even though it's glaringly obvious[0] what the "secret sauce" is in TikTok and why it works so well. Instead…

> but I sort of agree with the US government that it's crazy to give that much of (mostly) your youth's attention to an adversary.

In a way Europe has been doing that for many years. The US does not have any privacy protection of foreigners, the NSA is only not supposed to capture data on US citizens.

Only now are we seeing Google Analytics banned in many European countries. But it's a very small step.

Re: Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy

#314

Post by ethbr0 » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 9:24 PM UTC

shmatt wrote: post #88

gdulli wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Twitter forced the algorithmic timeline on people, someone tweeted: "Is the algorithm based what everyone else likes, or what I like? Because I hate what everyone else likes, and I don't know what I like."

I don't have TikTok, but for 2 years this is what I've been hearing from people who love it. They figured out a way to show you exactly what you're interested in, without you giving them any specific input There have been many articles about the phenomenon of the "For You Page"[1][2]. But the funny part is Meta sees this and figures - people are looking at videos, we'll do videos. And not - people are seeing what the…

> They figured out a way to show you exactly what you're interested in, without you giving them any specific input

They optimized their primary user interaction to provide specific input!

By distilling user choice down to {watch time} or {swipe}, and preferentially promoting short pieces of content that generate more swipes, they get unambiguous and frequent input.

Which isn't to lessen their achievement, but is to highlight that they engineered their entire experience to provide their algorithms more and cleaner feedback.

Re: Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy

#315

Post by labrador » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 9:25 PM UTC

harrisonjackson wrote: post #308

Instagram's biggest failing in trying to copy Tiktok is their feed algorithm. Tiktok has nailed the delightful "stumble upon" effect of getting users of all ages to keep going to the next and the next video. I don't mind how each new piece of content is paged because the content is better for the format and it doesn't feel clunky when I do want to skip to the next one. Instagram couldn't switch their algorithm becaus…

> Tiktok has nailed the delightful "stumble upon"

I didn't understand the appeal of Tiktok until just now when I read your comment. I was a StumbleUpon.com addict in 2006-07. I spent hours a day on it, saw really interesting content and even made some IRL friends.

I have no idea why they killed that site. I'll give Tiktok another try.

Re: Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy

#316

Post by d4mi3n » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 9:26 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #71

The key point here is that TikTok is now beating all the US social networks. This may be the beginning of the end for what Silicon Valley calls "tech", but is just ads with social content. Peak Facebook was in Q2 2021.[1] Instagram is losing to TikTok. (If you think the "metaverse" is going to be important in the social space, check out what's happening in China in that area. While the US has been distracted by the N…

> Peak Facebook was in Q2 2021.[1] Instagram is losing to TikTok.

Peak by what measure?

If by profit, probably. From the perspective of a product I like and want to use? Facebook peaked long, long ago.

Re: Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy

#317

Post by solarmist » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 9:27 PM UTC

labrador wrote: post #315

harrisonjackson wrote: post #308

Instagram's biggest failing in trying to copy Tiktok is their feed algorithm. Tiktok has nailed the delightful "stumble upon" effect of getting users of all ages to keep going to the next and the next video. I don't mind how each new piece of content is paged because the content is better for the format and it doesn't feel clunky when I do want to skip to the next one. Instagram couldn't switch their algorithm becaus…

> Tiktok has nailed the delightful "stumble upon" I didn't understand the appeal of Tiktok until just now when I read your comment. I was a StumbleUpon.com addict in 2006-07. I spent hours a day on it, saw really interesting content and even made some IRL friends. I have no idea why they killed that site. I'll give Tiktok another try.

I think they just never found a way to make money that didn’t destroy the experience.

Re: Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy

#318

Post by solarmist » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 9:28 PM UTC

d4mi3n wrote: post #316

Animats wrote: post #71

The key point here is that TikTok is now beating all the US social networks. This may be the beginning of the end for what Silicon Valley calls "tech", but is just ads with social content. Peak Facebook was in Q2 2021.[1] Instagram is losing to TikTok. (If you think the "metaverse" is going to be important in the social space, check out what's happening in China in that area. While the US has been distracted by the N…

> Peak Facebook was in Q2 2021.[1] Instagram is losing to TikTok. Peak by what measure? If by profit, probably. From the perspective of a product I like and want to use? Facebook peaked long, long ago.

Yup. Money I’m sure.

Re: Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy

#319

Post by saurik » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 9:30 PM UTC

harrisonjackson wrote: post #308

Instagram's biggest failing in trying to copy Tiktok is their feed algorithm. Tiktok has nailed the delightful "stumble upon" effect of getting users of all ages to keep going to the next and the next video. I don't mind how each new piece of content is paged because the content is better for the format and it doesn't feel clunky when I do want to skip to the next one. Instagram couldn't switch their algorithm becaus…

I haven't checked recently and I don't have the phone with the new version of Instagram on it with me (so maybe this changed) but for a long time (and I think still) I have one account that has the paged UI and one account that still has the fling UI logged in to the same copy of Instagram simultaneously (as in where I can switch between them using the account selector).

Re: Instagram is shifting to videos – users aren't happy

#320

Post by rightbyte » Wed, Jul 27, 2022, 9:30 PM UTC

winternett wrote: post #276

cratermoon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a rigged carnival game A major "Aha!" moment for me was when I had it pointed out to me that the social media companies' algorithms that get and keep users attention by showing them what they want can easily be exapted to manipulate the metrics and ad buying behavior.

Yep, the algorithms are all geared towards serving company revenue, not towards finding the best content contributors... What you see on most platforms is now override by who pays the most to boost their posts. There's a whole bunch of smoke and mirrors goin on.

If wonder if TikToks success is just not doing this. Like "viral" articles and videos used to work on Facebook in like 2014, when "likes" actually mattered and could make something a chainmail-ish between friends.