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Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#231

Post by jorblumesea »

feet wrote: post #206
djur wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A substantial number of those 52 senators oppose free school meals not because they're "too expensive" but because the policy itself (the government giving free food to children) is something they object to on ideological grounds. A much smaller subset of that group also oppose the government giving free stuff to industry, but in either case the cost is not what they're concerned about.

Quoted post unavailable.

It's not that crazy if you think about the fact that most senators never went to public schools, are from wealthy families, went ivy league, mostly hang around other wealthy people.

Completely out of touch is probably the right mental framework.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#232

Post by bilbo0s »

kortilla wrote: post #210
feet wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

It’s almost as if that’s not the ideology at all!

Yep.

In the US, a lot of the time support for one program or another is given not on the basis of ideology, but rather on the basis of whether or not the beneficiaries of a program provided commensurate, um, "campaign contributions".

Pretty sure impoverished school kids contribute pretty much zero to political campaigns.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#233

Post by pram »

feet wrote: post #206
djur wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A substantial number of those 52 senators oppose free school meals not because they're "too expensive" but because the policy itself (the government giving free food to children) is something they object to on ideological grounds. A much smaller subset of that group also oppose the government giving free stuff to industry, but in either case the cost is not what they're concerned about.

Quoted post unavailable.

Corporations need to eat too!

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#234

Post by LAC-Tech »

01100011 wrote: post #70
tdhz77 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost is not the only consideration. I fear for people who only focus on one issue and ignore the rest. Rarely do we see congressional leaders agreeing on this scale. I would say they find that reliance on China to be a threat to National Security. US and China communications is zero and even lower than it was during the Cold War. Pelosi story on visiting Taiwan should give you an idea of the stakes that are play. Chi…

You can't wave the magic wand of national security and justify any inefficient or ineffective attempt at stealing from the future to goose the present. The short term goal should be to diversify critical US supply chains away from a country that is currently considered by the US to be an competitor. I'm sure you remember that US official policy since the 70s is the "One China Policy" which admits that Taiwan is a par…

One of the most pernicious myths about this situation out there is that there is a single "One China Policy" shared by everyone on earth. This is not the case. The One China Policy of the US is different to that of the PRC. And I quote:

- The United States did not explicitly state the sovereign status of Taiwan in the three US-PRC Joint Communiques of 1972, 1979, and 1982.

- The United States "acknowledged" the "One China" position of both sides of the Taiwan Strait.

- U.S. policy has not recognized the PRC's sovereignty over Taiwan;

- U.S. policy has not recognized Taiwan as a sovereign country; and

- U.S. policy has considered Taiwan's status as unsettled.

Next time you read a news story about this issue, take note of the fact that PRC officials use the term "the One China policy" while US officials use the term "our 'One China' policy".

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#235

Post by [deleted] »

chmod600 wrote: post #166
djur wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A substantial number of those 52 senators oppose free school meals not because they're "too expensive" but because the policy itself (the government giving free food to children) is something they object to on ideological grounds. A much smaller subset of that group also oppose the government giving free stuff to industry, but in either case the cost is not what they're concerned about.

Or, perhaps feel that state governments are better suited to those kinds of assistance programs.

[deleted]

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#236

Post by kergonath »

mathattack wrote: post #191
djur wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A substantial number of those 52 senators oppose free school meals not because they're "too expensive" but because the policy itself (the government giving free food to children) is something they object to on ideological grounds. A much smaller subset of that group also oppose the government giving free stuff to industry, but in either case the cost is not what they're concerned about.

I’m all for healthy free lunches for poor kids. Is it really necessary to give free meals to all Palo Alto kids independent of financial status? https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2022/06/19/palo-alto-uni...

It is not necessarily a problem with progressive income taxes: the wealthier still pay more.

Also, giving every kid the same treatment is a good idea in general as it reinforces the idea that they should be treated equally.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#237

Post by imhoguy »

C-x_C-f wrote: post #144
pm90 wrote: post #20

WaPo article, which has more details about the bill and less details about what different “personalities” are saying: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/27/senate-ch... . Overall, it looks great. We absolutely need to fund more semiconductor manufacturing. Losing that ability to China/Taiwan was just a terrible strategic mistake. The US hasn’t lost this battle (over semiconductors) just yet. While curren…

This is always framed in terms of USA vs. China/Taiwan but what about Europe? AFAIK (I might know wrong) the consensus among macroeconomists is that "social market economies" like European ones are better suited (compared to "liberal market economies" like the USA) to investing in large scale manufacturing (see e.g. Varieties of Capitalism [0]—though it is a bit controversial). Though I do wonder if chip manufacturin…

Europe has ASML

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#238

Post by sct202 »

spicymaki wrote: post #209
Someone1234 wrote: post #129

It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that . Unfortunately 52 senators…

It is despicable that we don't do enough for the poor, but the government can do two things at once. It does not need to be either or. For the US this is a chip manufacturing is a key strategic asset. South Korea, China, and Taiwan governments are essentially funding their chip manufacturing. It is not a fair playing field. The fact that they are only spending $52B on grants and incentives out of $280B is actually to…

While South Korea is throwing out giant numbers, the number of South Korean and Taiwanese companies who are announcing plants contingent on the CHIPS Act recently makes it seem like what the US is doing is very favorable (these companies have announced plans of SK Group $22b, Samsung $200b, Globalwafers $5b).

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#239

Post by lvspiff »

Grim-444 wrote: post #201
mhneu wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlikely, because many states then cut those assistance programs when given the opportunity. It's more likely that the 'state' argument is a way to achieve their ideological ends (cutting the program.) That said, this bill is a very positive development. Investing in local manufacturing and R&D is a great idea, and it will help the economy. Hopefully it will efficient and money will not be captured by rent-seekers or…

Isn't that how it's supposed to work? The state is supposed to pass laws that represent the will of its constituents. If the majority of the people living in the state are opposed to such a program, then they shouldn't have such a program. The scope of the federal government is supposed to be for coordinating cross-state stuff that states alone can't decide for themselves.

Thats the abortion ruling in a nutshell - return it to the states and let the voters decide. However at the same time we have rulings saying gun rights are a federal issue and a state cannot regulate how permits are given out the way they want (although there are many nuances there), essentially making it a constitutional issue due to the 2nd amendment.

So in other words if it's the will of the country we need to pass an amendment, and if not then move to a state where your ideals are embraced. I know I've heard this story somewhere before...i think back in 1860's...

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#240

Post by jedberg »

Someone1234 wrote: post #129

It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that . Unfortunately 52 senators…

Keep in mind that this isn't just a handout to business, but also a national security issue. Having 90% of our chips made in Taiwan means we have to spend a bunch of resources protecting Taiwan.

The long term plan here is to bring this manufacturing back into the US so that we don't have to protect Taiwan anymore.

(Please note I'm not stating my opinion on if this is good or bad, simply stating the end game they are going for).

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