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ESG should be boiled down to one simple measure: emissions

economist.com

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Re: ESG should be boiled down to one simple measure: emissions

#71

Post by rocqua »

sjaak wrote: post #19
greeneggs wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MSCI ESG ratings: Tesla: A https://www.msci.com/our-solutions/esg-investing/esg-ratings... Exxon: BBB https://www.msci.com/our-solutions/esg-investing/esg-ratings...

Shell: AA https://www.msci.com/our-solutions/esg-investing/esg-ratings... Higher than TSLA

On the S and the G, I could imagine Tesla doing quite bad. With e.g. "work fro. Hone is fine, as long as you work from the office at least 40 hours a week".

Besides, shell is apparently so green that activists investors are asking it to split out the green energy part from the oil part. The idea of activists is that oil lovers undervalue shell because of the green stuff, whilst green lovers undervalue shell because of the oil. Hence if you split it the parts have a higher combined valuation. Point being, shell has a very significant green energy investment.

Re: ESG should be boiled down to one simple measure: emissions

#72

Post by washbrain »

smsm42 wrote: post #61
washbrain wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSLA also has a lot of labor related discussions open about workplace safety and racism. (I'm not weighing in on their validity, but it's absolutely truthful the allegations and lawsuits are there.)

You see how bizarre it gets. If you discuss workplace safety and racism (even without any proof of any wrongdoing, just talking about how to treat people better - and I'm sure there are always ways to treat people better), you get a ding on the score. If you suppress any discussion on the matter, you score is perfect. There's absolutely no evidence Tesla is more racist or unsafe place to work than Shell. If anything,…

Your hypothesis is that people are more likely to sue their employer if their employer is Tesla, rather then Shell?

Re: ESG should be boiled down to one simple measure: emissions

#73

Post by gnarbarian »

qweqwerwerwerwr wrote: post #50
cardanome wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A electric cars are mostly a luxury item for rich people to feel better. Not sure why you think Tesla should have a good rating. They are harmful in that they are actively distracting from the proper solution: that people shouldn't have private cars. The environmental cost to produce car, the space they take up in the cities, in the end private car ownership can not be made sustainable even if they run on electric. T…

Quoted post unavailable.

In my mind's eye, I picture his ideal society as being some sort of giant human factory farm where we are all living in little pods and eating bugs.

You still have freedom here. Comrade even though you cannot leave, you still have freedom here in your utilitarian pod. (clean luxury pods require too much energy and are outlawed). You have the freedom to consume media from either one of the state sanctioned media information channels. you also have the freedom to choose the green paste or the brown paste for dinner. Unfortunately our biosensors indicate You may be feeling some depression and anger lately, in an attempt to limit the fallout and spread of your toxic negativity to other residents your communication privileges have been revoked and you will be issued medication mixed into your meals until The behavior and bio sensors indicate positive levels. Though our efforts have been unable to stop climate change, further sacrifice is still necessary to minimize more environmental harm. have a blessed day!

Re: ESG should be boiled down to one simple measure: emissions

#74

Post by olddustytrail »

axblount wrote: post #7

I think Tariq Fancy does a good job of breaking down why ESG and sustainable investing as a whole is bunk: https://medium.com/@sosofancy/the-secret-diary-of-a-sustaina... He also summarizes his thoughts on Doug Henwood's podcast: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9zaG91dC5sYm8tdGF...

Having started to read the "breakdown" I'm unsure I want to listen to the podcast.

Any chance of a tldr for that? The linked blog is too purile for my taste.

Re: ESG should be boiled down to one simple measure: emissions

#75

Post by cardanome »

gnarbarian wrote: post #46
cardanome wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A electric cars are mostly a luxury item for rich people to feel better. Not sure why you think Tesla should have a good rating. They are harmful in that they are actively distracting from the proper solution: that people shouldn't have private cars. The environmental cost to produce car, the space they take up in the cities, in the end private car ownership can not be made sustainable even if they run on electric. T…

I don't live in a city. I'm 20 miles from the nearest grocery store. I build real physical things with my hands that require physical materials like lumber to haul around. I can't haul 2000 lb of lumber on the back of my road bike.

What would be the issue with just having your stuff delivered then?

And yeah every rule needs exceptions, of course there should be ways to rent cars for special occasion, I am just against general private car ownership for most people.

Edit: General private car ownership of people living in the cities that is

Re: ESG should be boiled down to one simple measure: emissions

#76

Post by gnarbarian »

nemo44x wrote: post #59
gnarbarian wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't live in a city. I'm 20 miles from the nearest grocery store. I build real physical things with my hands that require physical materials like lumber to haul around. I can't haul 2000 lb of lumber on the back of my road bike.

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: ESG should be boiled down to one simple measure: emissions

#77

Post by cardanome »

gnarbarian wrote: post #73
qweqwerwerwerwr wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

In my mind's eye, I picture his ideal society as being some sort of giant human factory farm where we are all living in little pods and eating bugs. You still have freedom here. Comrade even though you cannot leave, you still have freedom here in your utilitarian pod. (clean luxury pods require too much energy and are outlawed). You have the freedom to consume media from either one of the state sanctioned media infor…

What a weird straw man.

I haven't owned a car for my whole life and I am doing fine. It is not a big deal. Yes you need to life in a city with decent public transport but that is all.

It is insane how people seem to be not even able to imagine a world that is not car-centric. It is really a small sacrifice that would increase the actual living conditions of everyone as we could have cities that are much more pleasant to life in.

Re: ESG should be boiled down to one simple measure: emissions

#78

Post by kfrzcode »

SicSemperUranus wrote: post #8
kodyo wrote: post #2

So, "E."

The article is paywalled, but this seems like a nothing burger. The point of ESG isn't to save the planet, it's to make the world a better place to live/work in. Union busting is bad for workers and therefore society at large. What's the article's point? That point shouldn't care about social issues? Agree to disagree I guess.

> Union busting is bad for workers and therefore society at large.

Re: ESG should be boiled down to one simple measure: emissions

#80

Post by ZeroGravitas »

axblount wrote: post #7

I think Tariq Fancy does a good job of breaking down why ESG and sustainable investing as a whole is bunk: https://medium.com/@sosofancy/the-secret-diary-of-a-sustaina... He also summarizes his thoughts on Doug Henwood's podcast: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9zaG91dC5sYm8tdGF...

Does he actually have a point in amongst the rambling name dropping I gave up hope somewhere around the Swedish Souffle anecdote and abandoned the article.
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