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Programming languages endorsed for server-side use at Meta

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Re: Programming languages endorsed for server-side use at Meta

#221
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most of the backend developers are former frontend developers Is that true at fb? That's quite interesting if so.

lmao definitely not

It would have said something extraordinary about the kinds of ppl they hired for front end development!

Re: Programming languages endorsed for server-side use at Meta

#222
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure they are always changing the alg like all social media companies, but the habits of people have changed. They are most likely adjusting to it. But the main thing that effects your app experience is who you follow, what they post, and how you browse. Personally I've always gone straight to the profiles and view from there, but I view IG more as a photo gallery than anything else.

> … but the habits of people have changed. Surely, it could be both: the algorithm changes people’s habits and people change their posting habits based on the activity they think the algorithm is rewarding?

Certainly. The habit changes are just my anecdote. The anecdotes of others such as the mentioned photographers. They are two different perspective (consumer and creator) so I'm sure there are different experiences.

The consumer notices changes of their friends, who is posting what.

The creator notices changes in their impressions, how many is viewing what.

Re: Programming languages endorsed for server-side use at Meta

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust is far more widely used than D in the industry, so it's no surprised that it's more supported at Meta. Re: Go, it's use cases overlap with the officially supported languages, so there's no broad need for it.

>> Rust is far more widely used than D in the industry An off the cuff comment but all the same it made me think - how would you get data for an assertion like that. The usage of both D and Rust is notoriously low in the industry, a rounding error. That has to make it so hard to measure. Still, you'd expect D to be more popular because Rust's only been around 10-ish years or so. If you click through the TIOBE ranking…

> The usage of both D and Rust is notoriously low in the industry

Rust usage is not "notoriously low" (don't know how you came to believe that) and it's growing very rapidly. The fact that it's a major supported language at Meta is evidence enough to the contrary, not to mention the plethora of post titles on HN that end with "in Rust", or are about rewriting in Rust (some of these are personal projects but many are company blog posts). I haven't seen any for D. Also just looked at the 2022 June Who's Hiring thread and ctrl-f "rust" found 23 matches, though admittedly that doesn't mean there are 23 jobs using Rust there.

I wouldn't trust Indeed, personally I've found it to be pretty bad for programming jobs, and definitely not representative of the industry (especially estimated salary, it's been wildly off for every company I've been at).

I just tried searching for a few language popularity studies, any that I found did not even include D. The StackOverflow 2022 dev survey says that Rust is both the most loved and wanted language: https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022/#most-loved-dreaded-and...

Re: Programming languages endorsed for server-side use at Meta

#224
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Elite" and "elitism" are totally different concepts. Disparaging jokes about programming languages are really tired and uninteresting, I was glad to see that the Carbon discord explicitly bans them.

In practice they're always (?!) about the userbase. Everything's got exceptions but it's usually a punch by proxy. This would be really obvious if it was anything else. If someone started making fun of say basketball, keeping it not about the people who play and are fans would be quite a precipice to navigate. You could certainly complain about the technicals of the rules but you're no longer in the world of jokes. G…

> Given that, Haskell, unless you're a mathematician, is still one of the least accessible language outside of purely academic, esoteric or intentionally obfuscated ones.

Tiny nitpick: Haskell the language and runtime is just another ML. You could technically write a ground-up Haskell program that doesn't do any maths stuff — in about the same way that you can write a ground-up Erlang program that doesn't use OTP.

Haskell just has a standard library and language-package ecosystem that's full of stuff only mathematicians were previously expected to understand. :)

Re: Programming languages endorsed for server-side use at Meta

#225
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that you need to be a fan, but what are your reasons for not liking Rust? As a Rust developer, I'm always curious.

I think its killer feature is the memory safety guarantees, but other than that, I just don't find it as readable as other modern languages, mainly because it's symbol heavy.

Fair, but like any language this becomes a non-issue given enough time with it.

Re: Programming languages endorsed for server-side use at Meta

#226
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I did not mean XAML literally though, something like that would be super nice for Linux. The project you linked brings Windows RT as a requirement. But just something with the richness of QT + Rust on Linux would be welcome. I am hearing the rust bindings for QT are just a pain and incomplete. I was hoping for Rust to really offer an alternative for C++ here.

Well, there is Slint in that case, from former Qt devs, but it is still pretty much early days. https://slint-ui.com/ Check their online demos.

Thank you, still early indeed but the project looks promising. I am really hoping for the Return of the Desktop in which episode Rust defeats C++ and we all have a sane, safe, free and memory abiding computing experience.

Re: Programming languages endorsed for server-side use at Meta

#227
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

actually creating a cli with rust is really one of the best ways to use it. it is extremly fast and has a low footprint and if your cli does only one thing well it's probably easy to write opinionated rust. and clap is probably the best args parser available on the planet. no other language has an args parser that is so easy to use and still extremly fast with a low overhead than rust.

in what world is the arg parser performance critical?

well depending on the language an argsparser can trash quite a lot of memory and become slower than necessary when there is a big argument list. as others said if this cli is also used as a component than it might be important that it is fast. and since claps is so easy to use and has basically no downsides it's stupid to even not at least try it. as said compared to other tools it's really really simple

Re: Programming languages endorsed for server-side use at Meta

#228
post #99
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because most of the backend developers are former frontend developers that are sick of JS.

> most of the backend developers are former frontend developers Is that true at fb? That's quite interesting if so.

I was not, but I did choose JavaScript cynically with spite.

Spite is a great design decision.

Re: Programming languages endorsed for server-side use at Meta

#229
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that mutability is a useful and common property used by most programmers. It takes a bit of buy in to be convinced immutability is a good thing that solves bugs. For example: Here's a reasonable program to write in Python (wave hands here, my python is rusty) queue = [root] for node in queue: if !node.visited: # ... visit the node ... node.visited = True for child in node.children: queue.insert(child) He…

TBH I'm surprised that even works in Python – modifying a collection you're in the middle of iterating seems like a bad habit to get into in any language. edit: in fact, if you specifically use a deque in Python the way you are in Rust, Python will throw a "RuntimeError: deque mutated during iteration". This is just a bad approach in any language, honestly.

Agreed, python may be a contrived example here. It is possible to pull this off in a few languages where object relocation isn't a problem and mutating a collection during iteration is natural.

Re: Programming languages endorsed for server-side use at Meta

#230
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most of the backend developers are former frontend developers Is that true at fb? That's quite interesting if so.

I was not, but I did choose JavaScript cynically with spite. Spite is a great design decision.

an underappreciated one.
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