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Argentina’s black-market USD rate climbs 24% in two weeks

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Re: Argentina’s black-market USD rate climbs 24% in two weeks

#101

Post by 199X »

likortera wrote: post #22
azinman2 wrote: post #2

Why does Argentina always have such a volatile currency?

I lived for 20 years there. In my opinion the root of all problems there is that it is embedded in the culture to be as egoist as possible and to steal as much as you can from everyone else in the most ruthless and shameless possible way. People usually complain about the government being corrupt and stealing to the people. But most people are the same, at their own level. They will try to steal as much as they can a…

Im Argentinian and lived here almost my whole life (30y) except a for 5 years in the Netherlands. I Agree with your comment, it is embedded in the culture. But I disagree that people are the same at their own level, on the contrary. The problem is that this is not a new issue, we have the same goverment for the last 20 years and inflation and corruption is always getting worst. During the 90s we had 1USD == 1Peso. Nowadays 1USD == 320Pesos, and thats 24% more than two weeks ago, and usually inflation is at least 5% per month!. I have no problem with high taxes if those reflect to the services goverment gives back (like the nordic countries). But if you pay 50% taxes on paycheck, then 20% on everything you buy, then 5% per month on inflation, and the result is an insecure unstable shithole is totally not fair. I promote paying and reciving paymentes on cash or crypto, and do my very best to avoid taxes, credit cards, bank accounts, etc. Because the politicians are destroying my country and I dont want to finance that.

Re: Argentina’s black-market USD rate climbs 24% in two weeks

#102

Post by bloomingeek »

likortera wrote: post #22
azinman2 wrote: post #2

Why does Argentina always have such a volatile currency?

I lived for 20 years there. In my opinion the root of all problems there is that it is embedded in the culture to be as egoist as possible and to steal as much as you can from everyone else in the most ruthless and shameless possible way. People usually complain about the government being corrupt and stealing to the people. But most people are the same, at their own level. They will try to steal as much as they can a…

My wife and I vacationed in Buenos Aires a few years ago because we read it was the Paris of the south. We enjoyed our trip, but what we found was far from Paris!

We rented a nice apartment from an expat from Michigan who married a Argentinian. In an email he practically begged us to bring $100 bills, which he would exchange for pesos at a much better rate then was available from local banks, which he thankfully did. When I asked him what was the deal, he told me the currency is so volatile there, the only protection was the USD, especially the $100 bill.

Most of the locals were friendly, the food was great. Public transportation was dirty and hot. We were constantly being approached by people wanting to give us "tours" around city for a fee. (We read about this before going!) The infrastructure everywhere was pretty bad, you had to be very careful where you stepped on any sidewalk. Not sure if we would go back, but we did enjoy most of our time there.

Re: Argentina’s black-market USD rate climbs 24% in two weeks

#103

Post by skeptikal »

likortera wrote: post #22
azinman2 wrote: post #2

Why does Argentina always have such a volatile currency?

I lived for 20 years there. In my opinion the root of all problems there is that it is embedded in the culture to be as egoist as possible and to steal as much as you can from everyone else in the most ruthless and shameless possible way. People usually complain about the government being corrupt and stealing to the people. But most people are the same, at their own level. They will try to steal as much as they can a…

There’s the joke that the real national sport of Argentina is “joder al próximo”.

Re: Argentina’s black-market USD rate climbs 24% in two weeks

#104

Post by valcron1000 »

likortera wrote: post #22
azinman2 wrote: post #2

Why does Argentina always have such a volatile currency?

I lived for 20 years there. In my opinion the root of all problems there is that it is embedded in the culture to be as egoist as possible and to steal as much as you can from everyone else in the most ruthless and shameless possible way. People usually complain about the government being corrupt and stealing to the people. But most people are the same, at their own level. They will try to steal as much as they can a…

Pathetic argument. What happened during the '90? Did the "egoist" people disappear? Or did they decide to be generous?

All of us are selfish, not only people in Argentina

Re: Argentina’s black-market USD rate climbs 24% in two weeks

#105

Post by kragen »

the_af wrote: post #57
argentinian wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prices of commodities are expressed in dollars and are global. The agricultural sector thinks in dollars, not in pesos. It's not that the dollar goes higher: the peso goes down. The illegal dollar market is not small, and its prices change similarly to the legal dolar market (mep, ccl).

The illegal dollar market is not where major operations are done, and so, it doesn't affect anything to a great degree. It's small in the sense a few big whales can manipulate it. > It's not that the dollar goes higher: the peso goes down. Well, yes . If you are from Argentina, you know what I meant. If the agricultural sector only "thinks in dollars", then why do they regularly push for a peso devaluation, talk abou…

Why "must" the agricultural sector be forced to "liquidate" their dollars "in a reasonable time"? By "liquidate" you presumably mean "sell for pesos", and the answer is that pesos are an irresponsible speculative investment that nobody would invest in voluntarily. It only goes down, and it does so with enormous volatility. The only reasonable time to do this is less than one day before spending the pesos.

So the answer is the same as if a mugger asks why you must be forced to give me all the money in your wallet, receiving nothing in return. The implied necessity is an invention of the speaker.

I don't believe you have reliable information about the size of the illegal dollar market.

Re: Argentina’s black-market USD rate climbs 24% in two weeks

#106

Post by valcron1000 »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #67
the_af wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can infer it. The most important thing is that major operations are not done in this market, obviously . Also, bizarrely enough the location of all "cuevas" (which is what we call the physical places where the illegal market operates) are well known by the authorities and could be shut down if they so wished. So there is definitely that in favor of the "the government is corrupt" argument.

Crypto advocates on this forum frequently list Argentina as a specific use case ( ie getting around foreign currency rules/restrictions ), that would imply that the market doesn’t just happen in “Cuevas”

Exactly this. Thanks to cryptocurrencies we can avoid a lot of this madness

Re: Argentina’s black-market USD rate climbs 24% in two weeks

#107

Post by likortera »

bloomingeek wrote: post #102
likortera wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived for 20 years there. In my opinion the root of all problems there is that it is embedded in the culture to be as egoist as possible and to steal as much as you can from everyone else in the most ruthless and shameless possible way. People usually complain about the government being corrupt and stealing to the people. But most people are the same, at their own level. They will try to steal as much as they can a…

My wife and I vacationed in Buenos Aires a few years ago because we read it was the Paris of the south. We enjoyed our trip, but what we found was far from Paris! We rented a nice apartment from an expat from Michigan who married a Argentinian. In an email he practically begged us to bring $100 bills, which he would exchange for pesos at a much better rate then was available from local banks, which he thankfully did.…

You can consider yourself lucky if you didn't have your phone stolen at gun point

Re: Argentina’s black-market USD rate climbs 24% in two weeks

#108

Post by [deleted] »

djbebs wrote: post #95
Retric wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incentives don’t need to be perfect to work out. US has had a much more stable economy post fiat money than before fiat money. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_Unit...

(X) doubt Any evidence for that?

[deleted]

Re: Argentina’s black-market USD rate climbs 24% in two weeks

#109

Post by ankaAr »

Think about this:

You are a professional working overseas. A company pay to you in dollars, 1000/5000/whatever.you gets an exchange at Ar$ 137 per dollar today , you moves to the next box in the bank to exchange that to dollars again. The cashier tells to you that you can only buy usd 200 with pesos, at ar$ 137 per dollar, with 65% tax over that, so near ar$ 226 per dollar. You wants more, ok, you are not allowed to buy those 200 dollars at official price, you goes to the free market, legal, to change your pesos for dollars at 336 each one.

You ends asking please to pay you in an foreign bank to not loose the dollars. And why we want to save in dollars, because the inflation, that maybe this year is 80% with luck.

And I'm lucky, because if I'm exporting soy beans they are paying me 33% less in the first step.

And I'm not starting to talk about taxes.

Forget, we are the bug in the system.

Edit: and you are ok, because you works on IT, but around you, your friends.., they will never buy a house, they are surviving. it is sad as hell.

Re: Argentina’s black-market USD rate climbs 24% in two weeks

#110

Post by notch656a »

likortera wrote: post #35
ab8 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this related to currency?

I'm not an economist. But I'm pretty sure a culture of stealing each other and not paying taxes is somehow related.

Not paying taxes is the opposite of stealing IMO. It is the taxing that is theft.
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