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Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#61

Post by lettergram »

bpodgursky wrote: post #57
lettergram wrote: post #26

I disagree that subsidizing R&D to a few companies is going to make us more competitive. Look at GE or Boeing, it didn’t work out. What works is a free market. Raise import costs on CPUs and you’ll incentivize building in the US and more companies to form. It costs $0 tax dollars and brings in revenue and high paying jobs. Similar to what we did with car manufacturing.

Uh I mean yes Boeing is kind of a mess right now, but it's ridiculous to argue that having Boeing based in the US isn't an enormous strategic advantage. Can you imagine a world where US airlines had to depend on either Airbus or Sukhoi planes? Do you really think that would be better?

I don’t think subsidizing them has been a success. I think tariffs and awarding contracts to the best domestic manufacturers are the way forward. That’s why SpaceX took off, they won contracts.

Boeing effectively lobbied to regulate others out of existence. Bought off who they could, then won grants and contracts because there was no one else.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#62

Post by culi »

trevorboaconstr wrote: post #36
jasondc wrote: post #15

The beginning of the undoing of globalization, countries will start bringing industries back home with bills like this.

No, I don’t think so. The last few years have been no more than a speed bump in the 100 year trend of increased global interconnection.

"Global interconnection" is not the same thing as "globalization". In many ways they're actually opposed. With globalization comes increased strength of patent and copyright laws and much more control over what crosses what borders

There's a direct relationship between international trade agreements and border security

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#63

Post by wildzzz »

lettergram wrote: post #48
connicpu wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tariffs on products we don't have immediate domestic manufacturing capacity for will hurt the economy in the short term, which is not a great move during a period of rising inflation. It's a tough decision though, because it does feel like the better move for the long term.

The US still produces a lot of computer chips… Intel is still a very large player in chips and dominate in some areas. Even TI which has tons of fabs (not highest end) as well. I don’t really understand this.

Relatively few consumer electronics use Intel chips. Even in the devices that do use Intel chips, it's one Intel CPU versus dozens of others.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#64

Post by smoldesu »

ParksNet wrote: post #39

Banning Proof of Work cryptocurrencies from being traded on licensed exchanges would achieve the same improvement of chip availability, as well as saving a huge amount of electricity, for $0. I guess sensible measures like this don't boost the share portfolios of politicians' spouses though.

"Sensible measures" like that don't get picked because ultimately all cryptocurrency is a zero-sum game, and getting rid of all of them would save us a lot of time, manhours and wasted Internet conversations. But ideas like that are too sensible, so we give people the freedom to build whatever blockchain-garbage they want, because that's their sovereign choice.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#65

Post by samstave »

When will senate pass a technological test.

Lets make these blokes take a MINIMAL entry level exam;

* What is a data base

* What is personal identifiable identification and why does it mattter

* What does a walled garden mean

So many functionally identifiable comms

These fucking morons cant even state the above.

De-Seat them all.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#66

Post by Bloating »

analognoise wrote: post #54
lettergram wrote: post #26

I disagree that subsidizing R&D to a few companies is going to make us more competitive. Look at GE or Boeing, it didn’t work out. What works is a free market. Raise import costs on CPUs and you’ll incentivize building in the US and more companies to form. It costs $0 tax dollars and brings in revenue and high paying jobs. Similar to what we did with car manufacturing.

There is no such thing as "the free market" - it's this mythologized idea that people keep pushing, usually to damage workers so they can ship jobs offshore. If anything, the more something resembles a "free market", the worse it is - you don't think Intel wouldn't poison the water supply if it juiced the Q4 earnings? It's always more economical to just dump the toxic waste into the local river. If anything these sub…

There are absolutely free markets, usually small, niche, some under ground. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The world, and its economies, are more complex then you, I or anyone on this board can comprehend

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#67

Post by lettergram »

analognoise wrote: post #54
lettergram wrote: post #26

I disagree that subsidizing R&D to a few companies is going to make us more competitive. Look at GE or Boeing, it didn’t work out. What works is a free market. Raise import costs on CPUs and you’ll incentivize building in the US and more companies to form. It costs $0 tax dollars and brings in revenue and high paying jobs. Similar to what we did with car manufacturing.

There is no such thing as "the free market" - it's this mythologized idea that people keep pushing, usually to damage workers so they can ship jobs offshore. If anything, the more something resembles a "free market", the worse it is - you don't think Intel wouldn't poison the water supply if it juiced the Q4 earnings? It's always more economical to just dump the toxic waste into the local river. If anything these sub…

Lol the whole point of the US design was to allow the free market internally. Externally it was designed to be protectionist.

I agree “free market” today is insane. Initially the federal governments only source of revenue was tariffs, so it would protect domestic production. This makes the US independent and wealthy.

You can’t have an international “free market” system unless you don’t want to protect domestic production. Which imo is what the US did starting in the 70s until today.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#68

Post by vkou »

jasondc wrote: post #15

The beginning of the undoing of globalization, countries will start bringing industries back home with bills like this.

This is the 23rd year in a row that people have been saying this, at the rate we're going, globalization will be undone any minute now.

This is just a taxpayer gift to multinationals. If you want to undo globalization, handouts aren't the solution, tariffs are.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#69

Post by Goronmon »

skywal_l wrote: post #30
qaq wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be a good way?

Have the DOD force its suppliers to make their things in the US? Only allow them to import raw materials or low value manufactured elements. Just throwing ideas, might not be practical...

Have the DOD force its suppliers to make their things in the US? Only allow them to import raw materials or low value manufactured elements. Just throwing ideas, might not be practical...

Are there controls on what suppliers charge? If not, what prevents them from charging as much or more than would be spent on subsidies? If so, what prevents suppliers from just choosing to opt out of the transaction entirely?

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#70

Post by 01100011 »

tdhz77 wrote: post #21
01100011 wrote: post #16

Such a monumental scam and a gross theft from taxpayers. Companies making billions of dollars in profits don't need free money. I could be onboard with a subsidized loan, but handouts are not needed. FWIW, I work at a company that stands to benefit from this bill. Does the US need to secure reliable semiconductor supply chains free of China? Sure. This is not the most cost effective way to do it.

Cost is not the only consideration. I fear for people who only focus on one issue and ignore the rest. Rarely do we see congressional leaders agreeing on this scale. I would say they find that reliance on China to be a threat to National Security. US and China communications is zero and even lower than it was during the Cold War. Pelosi story on visiting Taiwan should give you an idea of the stakes that are play. Chi…

You can't wave the magic wand of national security and justify any inefficient or ineffective attempt at stealing from the future to goose the present.

The short term goal should be to diversify critical US supply chains away from a country that is currently considered by the US to be an competitor. I'm sure you remember that US official policy since the 70s is the "One China Policy" which admits that Taiwan is a part of China and that only attempts to reunify by force will be responded to(*). So the US needs to move supply chains out of PRC/ROC, but moving them to S. Korea, Japan, or dozens of other friendly nations is an acceptable goal from a national security standpoint.

* - I'm not a fan of this, but it is what it is. I didn't realize it until recently.

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