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Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

nautil.us

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Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#221

Post by blue1 »

nerdjon wrote: post #216
velcrovan wrote: post #104

RadioLab did an episode on this topic “Decoding the Void” in 2014 ( https://www.radiolab.org/episodes/anesthesia ) that, for me, pretty much deconstructed the whole idea of an afterlife in 20 minutes. What happens when we die? People commonly think of this as some kind of unknowable mystery. But people lose consciousness all the time and aren't entering the spirit world when they do so. If you’ve ever awoken from gen…

I have to say, as someone who very much believes as you do (no after life or anything related). The idea of this kinda scares me? I have never been under anesthesia, but I have kinda accepted that at some point in the not too distant future I will likely need to be for my knees and/or carpal tunnel. But something about being under it basically being like experiencing death just, it reinforces those fears even more of…

It is not scaring, because you do not experience anything at all. Time under anesthesia does not exist: it feels like you wake up at the same time you lose consciousness, with nothing in between.

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#222

Post by labrador »

alok-g wrote: post #214
labrador wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> compare it negatively to the experience of dying I'm not sure what you mean by this. My point was I was anesthetized but managed to go to the store, buy things and make it back, something dead people aren't able to manage last time I checked. Like Nicola Tesla, I believe my brain is a receiver like a radio and I actually exist in a cloud of consciousness that we all exist in, so I don't have as many negative feelin…

I think my use of the word 'negatively' has caused a confusion. Sorry about that. What I am asking is about your comparison below. You have experienced anesthesia but not death, then how do you say the following? >> So I'm going to say anesthesia is not like being dead. ...

I anesthetized myself to the point of complete blackout for 24 hours

I walked to the store and purchased things

Dead people don't walk to the store and purchase things

Therefore being anesthetized is not like being dead

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#223

Post by alsaffar »

kradeelav wrote: post #150
lycos wrote: post #97

A tiny subset of patients (about 1 or 2 in 1,000, although estimates vary) have reported “accidental awareness,” That's just what I wanted to read having my first ever surgery planned for next week, another thing to be afraid of happening!

If it helps -- it's still quite rare, and orders of magnitude less likely that you'd feel or remember anything other than a general haziness after three days. They put a whole cocktail of drugs in you so there's more overlap and less likely for one failure point. Yes there can be things that go wrong, but that's true with daily life (car crash, etc). You're far more likely to get hit with a case of comparatively mild…

Hello, I’m not the person you replied to, and I hope its not against the rules, but: I’ve had a terrible couple of years with debilitating anxiety and fear of physical illnesses after a panic attack one year into covid (diagnosed OCD, and talking to a therapist, and orders of magnitude better now w/o medication thankfully). One of the triggers that I still have is this (fear of anesthesia wearing of, and feeling painful procedures) so thank you for the post. (Sorry for the elongated ty note xD)

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#224

Post by alok-g »

keymon-o wrote: post #201
alok-g wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to hear more on this. Am somewhat playing a devil's advocate, but am genuinely unclear too. What's the higher importance of the impact left on the world. As per the comment you replied to, it will ultimately be multiplied to zero for each one of us. That the impact may sustain in the 'living' world feels somewhat like a propagating wave, or may be even a Ponzi scheme. Looking from a grander scheme of thi…

Not the guy you were replying to. Why are we assuming any of the impact would be a drive to live and should be of importance to anyone? Isn't the reason why we live just steering through the unknown and finding what will happen next. Some do more and some do less to affect it, but people usually just wonder what will happen tommorow, what will be in a year, some what will be in 50 years. We only want to do something…

>> Isn't the reason why we live just steering through the unknown and finding what will happen next.

That's the question the comment I replied to asked. What will (ultimately) happen next is that it will (may) all get multiplied by zero. What's exactly the point of steering through the unknown and finding what will happen next, when we know what's ultimately the next.

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#225

Post by svnt »

xenadu02 wrote: post #55
simonh wrote: post #8

How to approach loss of consciousness is one of the problems I have with non-materialist theories of consciousness like dualism and panpsychism. If consciousness is not generated by my physical brain, how come physical chemicals can manipulate my conscious state? If the brain is a receiver for consciousness, surely my consciousness should exist independently of my brain? Interfering with a radio doesn’t change what’s…

You're close to the fundamental problem here but don't go far enough. All one needs to do is look at Oliver Sack's books to understand that either of these must be true: 1. Consciousness is a physical system. This is the simplest explanation and accounts for all observed phenomenon. 2. Consciousness (or "soul") is metaphysical but is such a blank slate or so dependent on the physical state of the brain that we can ex…

If environmental conditions can lead to an unhealthy plant, what need is there for a seed?

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#226

Post by seszett »

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #42
avh02 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had my first full anesthesia experience as an adult - emergency but minor surgery, so not an extremely scary ordeal. I was very distinctly trying to pay attention to the process of going under, as in: do i feel it fade? etc. I remember doing the countdown thing and also trying to see if i could notice it at all like going to sleep. but, just like an off switch, no state change, just a full stop (but without somethi…

When I was a kid this once happened to me by just sleeping. I closed my eyes at night, opened them seemingly immediately and it was morning, feeling absolutely rested. It was pretty weird and amazing, and never happened again. I haven't heard anyone reporting something like this, but I'm almost sure it must have happened to other people too.

It happened to me once or twice. It felt great, and I still think about it sometimes several decades later.

I also thought about it reading the comments here.

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#227

Post by alok-g »

jack_pp wrote: post #191
alok-g wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to hear more on this. Am somewhat playing a devil's advocate, but am genuinely unclear too. What's the higher importance of the impact left on the world. As per the comment you replied to, it will ultimately be multiplied to zero for each one of us. That the impact may sustain in the 'living' world feels somewhat like a propagating wave, or may be even a Ponzi scheme. Looking from a grander scheme of thi…

> If our solar system gets destroyed today That's a useless hypothetical in my book, we have no reason to believe it will be destroyed any time soon and at the rate we're going, assuming we don't destroy ourselves, in another 1000 years we'll have long escaped the potential destruction of our planet or even our solar system. And a thousand years is a very short time "in the grander scheme of things" I believe the vas…

Yes, I take it's a hypothetical scenario, at least practically, if not theoretically also. My point with that hypothetical scenario, which I should have more explicitly stated, is to counter points of views I often hear on importance of life to the universe, etc.

In my understanding, it's not about the universe as a whole; only about the impact left predominantly on the lives on the earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#228

Post by BobbyJo »

fluoridation wrote: post #198
stephen_g wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t really make much sense to me… Seems more like a category error than anything - surely anyone who believes in any kind of spiritual afterlife would expect that death on a spiritual level is something much more than simply losing consciousness? Especially if some kind of omniscient deity is believed to be involved, why would such an entity perform any kind of transference into a spiritual realm when you we…

No, the real question is, if the mind can exist independently of the body (and the brain), why does consciousness stop temporarily during certain phases of sleep? If the mind can go on even when the body dies, then it stands to reason that the brain being unconscious should pose even less of an obstacle.

> brain being unconscious

That's circular logic no?

In any case, a good counterpoint would be blackout drunk people. They are somewhat conscious, and can interact with their environment, but if you ask them after the fact when sober what happened, it would appear to them as if they were entirely unconscious.

Anesthesia proves the brain is (at least mostly) unable to access experiences that take place when it isn't recording, and that, while our mind is present in the brain, we rely on it for recall. That might be enough to draw the line for some, but obviously not everyone.

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#229

Post by BossingAround »

ne0flex wrote: post #132
velcrovan wrote: post #104

RadioLab did an episode on this topic “Decoding the Void” in 2014 ( https://www.radiolab.org/episodes/anesthesia ) that, for me, pretty much deconstructed the whole idea of an afterlife in 20 minutes. What happens when we die? People commonly think of this as some kind of unknowable mystery. But people lose consciousness all the time and aren't entering the spirit world when they do so. If you’ve ever awoken from gen…

While the rational side of me thinks that death is probably oblivion, I just don't want to admit it. After a friend of mine passed away, I did a lot of soul searching and basically came to the conclusion that there's nothing after death. It was mentally destructive for me and sent me into a bout of depression. I'd hate to think that we're going through all this just to have your entire life multiplied by 0 at the end…

I find solace in nothingness after death. We go to bed every night and wake up every morning yet we hate the thought of oblivion or nothingness. The desire for meaning seems like food for ego to me, personally.

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#230

Post by Buttons840 »

nerdjon wrote: post #216
velcrovan wrote: post #104

RadioLab did an episode on this topic “Decoding the Void” in 2014 ( https://www.radiolab.org/episodes/anesthesia ) that, for me, pretty much deconstructed the whole idea of an afterlife in 20 minutes. What happens when we die? People commonly think of this as some kind of unknowable mystery. But people lose consciousness all the time and aren't entering the spirit world when they do so. If you’ve ever awoken from gen…

I have to say, as someone who very much believes as you do (no after life or anything related). The idea of this kinda scares me? I have never been under anesthesia, but I have kinda accepted that at some point in the not too distant future I will likely need to be for my knees and/or carpal tunnel. But something about being under it basically being like experiencing death just, it reinforces those fears even more of…

Don't be scared, anesthesia is like a really good nap. I'd do it for fun if it was safe and cheap.
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