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Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

nautil.us

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Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#11

Post by jrockway »

mathieuh wrote: post #7

I've overdosed on heroin before and when I woke up in hospital I had no feeling that time had passed, it was like I time travelled to a point in the future without experiencing the intervening points. Is it the same under anaesthesia or is it more like being asleep in that when you wake up and come to your senses again you are aware of it being later? Because my overdose felt like I just didn't exist for a couple of…

> Is it the same under anaesthesia

My experience with general anaesthesia was exactly like that. I was talking about bikes with the surgeon. 0 nanoseconds elapse. I'm waking up in another room.

This is what I imagine death is like.

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#12

Post by keithwhor »

seibelj wrote: post #3
Razengan wrote: post #2

Nevermind anesthesia, what about every day during sleep?

I’m a night owl… sleeping can be hard. If I’m lying in bed with my eyes closed and start wondering about what happens when you sleep, what dreams are, what happens if you die in your sleep… makes you not able to sleep

I used to be the same way — do you drink caffeine after 4PM? I was convinced I was a night owl and my most productive hours were 10PM until 2AM. That was until, at suggestion of my partner, I stopped drinking caffeine in the late afternoon and evening. As long as I do that I have no problem getting to sleep consistently and easily.

May not be the case for you but for my entire 20s I simply didn’t realize how much caffeine was actually impacting me.

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#13

Post by porker »

simonh wrote: post #10
mathieuh wrote: post #7

I've overdosed on heroin before and when I woke up in hospital I had no feeling that time had passed, it was like I time travelled to a point in the future without experiencing the intervening points. Is it the same under anaesthesia or is it more like being asleep in that when you wake up and come to your senses again you are aware of it being later? Because my overdose felt like I just didn't exist for a couple of…

It’s the same. I had surgery last year and it seemed like it was over in an instant. When you’re asleep your mind drifts in an out of different levels of awareness and consciousness from time to time so you have some experience of time passing. With anaesthesia in my experience there’s just nothing. Trying to remember what it was like, you might as well be trying to remember what it was like before you were born.

Yes. I found it incredibly disorientating, even after the event because time has passed and I have no awareness of it.

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#14

Post by zasdffaa »

mathieuh wrote: post #7

I've overdosed on heroin before and when I woke up in hospital I had no feeling that time had passed, it was like I time travelled to a point in the future without experiencing the intervening points. Is it the same under anaesthesia or is it more like being asleep in that when you wake up and come to your senses again you are aware of it being later? Because my overdose felt like I just didn't exist for a couple of…

OT: what's heroin like (when used not to excess)? I have some drug experience but none with H or opiates in general, and admittedly no plans to, but I'd like to know.

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#15

Post by dr_ick »

keithwhor wrote: post #12
seibelj wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a night owl… sleeping can be hard. If I’m lying in bed with my eyes closed and start wondering about what happens when you sleep, what dreams are, what happens if you die in your sleep… makes you not able to sleep

I used to be the same way — do you drink caffeine after 4PM? I was convinced I was a night owl and my most productive hours were 10PM until 2AM. That was until, at suggestion of my partner, I stopped drinking caffeine in the late afternoon and evening. As long as I do that I have no problem getting to sleep consistently and easily. May not be the case for you but for my entire 20s I simply didn’t realize how much caf…

Same. I don't drink caffeine after noon and I have a much easier time maintaining a functional sleep schedule.

I had a older relative who often complained about poor sleep. I asked if they drank caffeine in the afternoon and they scoffed at the idea it could be the issue. But I have noticed they are not drinking caffeine late in the day now, and the complaining about poor sleep has ceased.

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#16

Post by lend000 »

simonh wrote: post #8

How to approach loss of consciousness is one of the problems I have with non-materialist theories of consciousness like dualism and panpsychism. If consciousness is not generated by my physical brain, how come physical chemicals can manipulate my conscious state? If the brain is a receiver for consciousness, surely my consciousness should exist independently of my brain? Interfering with a radio doesn’t change what’s…

Not taking one position or the other, but you can't make any conclusions about whether a separate consciousness exists from anesthesia, only that no memories were formed that can be accessed by that consciousness (even if it did experience qualia during that time).

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#17

Post by samarendramh »

simonh wrote: post #8

How to approach loss of consciousness is one of the problems I have with non-materialist theories of consciousness like dualism and panpsychism. If consciousness is not generated by my physical brain, how come physical chemicals can manipulate my conscious state? If the brain is a receiver for consciousness, surely my consciousness should exist independently of my brain? Interfering with a radio doesn’t change what’s…

> If consciousness is not generated by my physical brain, how come physical chemicals can manipulate my conscious state? If the brain is a receiver for consciousness, surely my consciousness should exist independently of my brain? Interfering with a radio doesn’t change what’s happening in the recording studio. Why does the state of my brain affect my conscious state at all? If consciousness is fundamental, how can it ever stop?

I loved your analogy. So using the same analogy, is it possible that the radio's frequency tuning is changed (if the brain is a receiver for consciousness) or going under anasthesia is an interference that stops it from receiving things at all (if chemicals can manipulate the conscious state) ?

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#18

Post by zasdffaa »

mathieuh wrote: post #7

I've overdosed on heroin before and when I woke up in hospital I had no feeling that time had passed, it was like I time travelled to a point in the future without experiencing the intervening points. Is it the same under anaesthesia or is it more like being asleep in that when you wake up and come to your senses again you are aware of it being later? Because my overdose felt like I just didn't exist for a couple of…

Not quite so for me, needle in then suddenly I'm waking up elsewhere, but I felt that some, but unquantifiable, time had indeed passed.

Edit: not quite true, I felt a significant chunk has passed but I could not have estimated it. The nurse who was sitting next to me waiting for me to awake told me it was 20 minutes. That was far shorter than it felt.

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#19

Post by downboots »

simonh wrote: post #8

How to approach loss of consciousness is one of the problems I have with non-materialist theories of consciousness like dualism and panpsychism. If consciousness is not generated by my physical brain, how come physical chemicals can manipulate my conscious state? If the brain is a receiver for consciousness, surely my consciousness should exist independently of my brain? Interfering with a radio doesn’t change what’s…

Reducing the brain to a more complicated version of a pocket calculator doesn't change the platonic ideal of number.

Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?

#20

Post by prollings »

simonh wrote: post #8

How to approach loss of consciousness is one of the problems I have with non-materialist theories of consciousness like dualism and panpsychism. If consciousness is not generated by my physical brain, how come physical chemicals can manipulate my conscious state? If the brain is a receiver for consciousness, surely my consciousness should exist independently of my brain? Interfering with a radio doesn’t change what’s…

Perhaps consciousness is just an observer of those physical systems that exist in the brain, and under anaesthetic the interface between consciousness and those systems is interfered with. I don't know what I'm getting at.
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