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Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

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Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#481

Post by asvitkine »

hgomersall wrote: post #414
jabbany wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it isn't bait and switch at all. Unless Tesla advertised the upgraded capacity explicitly after the service, you are not entitled to anything. This is why things like consumer CPUs and GPUs do not advertise a guaranteed level of performance (they only state things like clock speeds, core counts, memory etc.) -- they are not liable if performance gets better or worse down the line. There is no distinction be…

The problem is it's not just a software tweak, you're also lugging around 30kWh of batteries. They are useful when they add range; less so when they're just dead mass. The response to this would be, fine reduce my range, but also swap out the battery for the proper size.

Unless they use different types of batteries for 60kWh that don't have the same energy density.

And assuming the software change didn't account for that by giving a bit more capacity.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#482

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

techolic wrote: post #332
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #35

Reason 547 why you should not connect your car to the internet. Today it is limiting range because mistake several years ago, tomorrow it will be mandatory ads every time when you start a car.

Why stop at that? Why not a 5 second ad every 10 miles?

Oh yes. Roll down windows, full blasting stereo with an ad, so you can "transfer the message" to as wide audience as possible. Obviously it will lock audio controls so you can't mute it. Employee of the month here.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#483

Post by danudey »

gambiting wrote: post #56
zcw100 wrote: post #48

So the way I'm reading the post is Tesla swapped out a battery pack for a 60 with a 90 and enabled the 90. Tesla, years later, discovers that even though the hardware for a 90 was installed it should have been software limited to be a 60. (I'm assuming that Tesla only made the owner pay the cost of the 60 battery swap even though they replaced it with a 90). They go and "fix the glitch" and set it back to the 60. Sin…

>> (I'm assuming that Tesla only made the owner pay the cost of the 60 battery swap even though they replaced it with a 90) It says right there that it was done under warranty. If my RTX3080 breaks, and Nvidia sends me a 3080Ti as a replacement(because maybe they don't have any 3080 in stock) then no, they can't lock it down to 3080 level 3 years later with a software update. And yes, I'm allowed to sell it on as a 3…

Imagine Apple replacing your broken Macbook Pro M1 base model with the upgraded model because they didn't have any exact replacements in stock, and then years later deciding to disable two of the CPU cores, two of the GPU cores, and half the SSD space (1 TB to 512 GB). People, especially on HN, would lose their freaking minds.

They would also lose their minds if Apple only sold the highest-end model but firmware-locked CPU cores and SSD space unless you paid extra for it, or, even better, paid a subscription for it.

Refresh rates up to 120 Hz, available for $4.99 per month!

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#484

Post by powerhour »

spiznnx wrote: post #475
cortesoft wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They actually did this with my tires on my Model X. I ordered mine with the standard tires, then they called me to say they had my exact order that someone cancelled, except it had the upgraded tire package. They originally said they were going to remove them when I picked it up, but they ended up just leaving them on and saying it was a free upgrade.

Good thing you don't have to worry about tires being remotely crippled :)

The TPMs on the other hand...

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#486

Post by extropy »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #408
datavirtue wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too much pedantry. If it doesn't benefit the consumer unequivocally, don't fucking do it.

Better still, tell me what the update does, then offer me the choice. Obviously that's easier said than done for a complex product, but don't expect sympathy when you screw up. Moving away from monolithic all-or-nothing OS updates would certainly help.

Offering a choice is tricky here. Since failures are significantly affected by the software ability to properly manage the device (and needs to be updated periodically to keep that up to date).

So yeah you can choose to keep the old version and loose warranty, cheers!

Im not sure what the legal side of warranty conditions is. But outdated software is potentially a very real cost to the manufacturer in therms of extra warranty work.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#487

Post by nr2x »

pkulak wrote: post #37
nr2x wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said, I’m potentially in the market for a car and this is like reason #5 I’m ruling out Tesla.

Same, though there were about a dozen previous reasons, starting with "pedo guy". This won't help, but I was pretty much long gone as a customer.

My big red flag is “self driving mode that may kill your family”.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#488

Post by nr2x »

balls187 wrote: post #41
pkulak wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, though there were about a dozen previous reasons, starting with "pedo guy". This won't help, but I was pretty much long gone as a customer.

Funny enough, it was test driving a Tesla that got me interested in getting an EV as my next vehicle. And like many, Musk's behavior has dissuaded me from purchasing one, and instead likely a Ford.

The EV Mustang looks so dope. See a lot of them in SV.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#490

Post by dagss »

bgirard wrote: post #131
sjm-lbm wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the previous owner misrepresented the car as a P90 and modified the badge then it's on them. I'm not entirely sure if I agree with this - they didn't just modify the badge, they also provided the additional rage from a P90. As a thought experiment: if I sell you a BMW 328i as a 340i but I also swap the engine and sell it with the additional power that comes with that change, have I misled you? Perhaps - I'm hone…

The key of this issue here is that there's a software lock that's been incorrectly unlocked. So it's a reasonable assumption that it might become locked again in the future. Regardless of the product, I believe that morally it needs to be disclosed to the buyer so that they can be aware of the risk and factor that into their buying decision and pricing. > I don't think selling a car with a P90 badge that also include…

I disagree with "it's a reasonable assumption that it might become locked again in the future". Unless this was very explicitly explained by Tesla to first customer.

The default assumption is going to be "they were out of 60kWH batteries so they gave me a 90kwh battery" end of story. And gifts cannot in general be taken back. Certainly not from later owners.

It is not like Tesla will give you lots of information. I know that my own replacement battery in my own Model S was a refurbished one, not a new one, because of the letters "RFRB" or something on my receipt. At no points in their process do they provide more details than the very minimum or let you talk to humans that can meaningfully answer questions (in my own experience).

If this info (that it was not supposed to be a gift) it was given to the customer probably in the form of "99kwhlckdwn60" on the receipt and no further info or something equivalently obscure.

If it looks like a gift, why not assume it was a gift? It is entirely reasonably they would gift 30kwh more if 60kwh was out of stock?

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