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Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

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Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#401

I'll spare the moral judgements against Tesla for this: The real moral of the story here is that if your business plan and practices is creating occasional weird issues and huge cognitive dissonance in your customers, it's the wrong business plan. Also... the number of people this applies to is likely so low that Tesla really screwed up by not erring on the side of the customer. (They didn't buy from Tesla, but they'…

Yup - at two previous companies (one I ran, one I didn't) we had as a design philosophy "we don't cause regressions". If we gave a customer an extra feature by mistake and they've since started using it and relying on it, that's on us. They don't care that they weren't "supposed" to have that feature, they see that it was taken away. Reputation and the customer relationship are worth more than the company's sense of…

>They don't care that they weren't "supposed" to have that feature, they see that it was taken away.

Bingo.

One of the issues with conventional large corporations (mostly outside of tech) is that middle management incentives often align poorly with this type of philosophy.

A few companies have gotten this right, at least at times.

Costco comes to mind in the present. They go out of their way to save their customers money, and to fix issues customers have as easily as they can. Their returns policy is pretty legendary.

Amazon, somewhat ironically given recent issues, had a philosophy early on that, if a customer was talking to them, they probably didn't want to be! ...And it's probably because something in Amazon's process went wrong. So while I think their reputation has fallen greatly, they did spend a lot of engineering effort into "harmonizing" their purchasing and returns process. Mostly because Bezos saw the value in that. And despite all the bad press, I think they still have that not 'right' but 'decent'. Becuase, while I've had a few issues with amazon, they resolved them really quickly and easily for me as a customer. (I think you get screwed as a vendor though...)

Another example I can think of is Vortex optics. Most optics companies had a pretty good guarantee, often lifetime. Vortex just heavily marketed it and took away the edge cases. So while leupold wouldn't replace your scope if you sent it in along with a video of you driving over it with a truck, vortex would. That allowed them to really rapidly acquire a ton of market share.

At the end of the day, customers are human and despite tech's best efforts, they still try to interact with companies as humans would each other. Fucking over your neighbor while being technically correct still leaves you with a pissed off neighbor who will not respond well to anything you bring to them in the future.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no, they can't lock it down to 3080 level 3 years later with a software update I think the problem is that there are 2 different types of "can't": can't as in technologically impossible, and can't as in legally disallowed. In the past, the former was usually the case. Vendors literally could not technologically take away features because things either were not controlled by software or software could not tell the h…

>Heck, they could even cut down all legitimate 3080Tis to what would be 3080 or even 1060 performance via drivers after 3 years and you'd be able to do nothing besides complain on social media -- you still have exactly the amount of hardware sold, and they never promised any performance levels (just check their site, you only get things like compute units, clock speed, ram etc. not performance guarantees like FLOPs o…

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Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one who bought TSLA when it was in the low double digits, I thought for sure that we'd one day own a Tesla (we sure made enough off TSLA to justify one). But this situation is but one of many little duck bites that have now put us off the brand. Sure, a duck doesn't bite all that hard, but enough of those little nibbles can cause some harm. And so "pedo guy", "taking TSLA private", "no, FSD does not transfer to th…

Tesla is such an odd company. They apparently have a great product, hardware and software. But the rest of the company is just an absolute shitshow Like, a friend recently received delivery of a Tesla. They went to the dealer 4 times before they got the car. Each time it was "Your car is available, come pick it up" and then when they got there the car wasn't actually there. By the last time they demanded that the per…

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Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#404
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software locks themselves are nefarious. Is it the owner's car, or Tesla's?

I wonder if there is some nice fine print somewhere that they only sold a "licence" to use the car. Not the car itself... Kinda like software has...

It wouldn't matter even if they did. In the US we title large pieces of property so that people don't pull this kind of BS.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#405

I'll spare the moral judgements against Tesla for this: The real moral of the story here is that if your business plan and practices is creating occasional weird issues and huge cognitive dissonance in your customers, it's the wrong business plan. Also... the number of people this applies to is likely so low that Tesla really screwed up by not erring on the side of the customer. (They didn't buy from Tesla, but they'…

> They didn't buy from Tesla, but they're still a customer buying servicing from them. This strikes me as a result of Tesla's whole "ignore everything known by car companies and act like software companies" approach. So far the software industry is young enough that most companies can expect that anyone approaching them for support is the same person who bought the software... but that's not at all the case for cars,…

What consumer software actually sells with that kind of long-term support commitment? I doubt Microsoft will ever lose a lawsuit from someone seeking security updates for a copy of Windows 95 they inherited from their grandfather.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#406
I saw first hand a situation where a local municipality did a public procurement for printer ink, and since there are no software patents in law, the best offer that won was for a compatible (non-oem) ink. This ink worked fine at the time of purchase, but after a software update to the printers (a few weeks later) stopped working.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#407
I bought a used car that had satellite radio. I never paid for the subscription, but it worked for 10 years! Then, suddenly one day it was cancelled. I didn't really feel like I could call them and complain.... I wonder if a previous owner was getting billed the whole time, and just didn't notice it.

Of course, this is different as a subscription service. But what if I'd sold it to someone before it got cancelled, and told them that it had free satellite radio? I don't think Sirius/XM should then have to just give the service for free. Yet somehow I don't think Tesla should have limited the battery either. I'm not really sure what the difference is.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there's no logical distinction, only a moral one. Imagine 3 scenarios: Company A rolls out a new mandatory update to a phone that addresses a CPU vulnerability, and to compensate for the reduced performance, overclocks the CPU so now your battery life is 20% shorter. Company B rolls out a new mandatory update to a phone that improves the battery management so phones do not shut down unexpectedly. However, due t…

Too much pedantry. If it doesn't benefit the consumer unequivocally, don't fucking do it.

Better still, tell me what the update does, then offer me the choice.

Obviously that's easier said than done for a complex product, but don't expect sympathy when you screw up. Moving away from monolithic all-or-nothing OS updates would certainly help.

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#409
A few examples come to mind, are they similar?

1. BMW accidentally enabled the heated seats in your car, then later deactivates it? So you enjoyed a bonus for a while, seems like they're entitled to remove it.

2. Bank accidentally gives you $1,000,000. A while later they realize their mistake and ask for the money back / transfer it out of your account. My understanding is that this is exactly what would happen.

What are the differences from this situation? Is it really a problem?

Re: Tesla remotely converts battery pack, cutting 1/3 of range

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. Warranty replacements aren’t a new concept, and I have a feeling if this were any other brand HN wouldn’t be so insistent on taking a step back and thinking about who else besides Tesla can be blamed when customers get the short end of the stick.

Yep, if it were John Deere or god-forbid, Google, HN would be up in arms.

With most brands, if I get screwed as a consumer I can generally expect other consumers to at least sympathize with my plight. With Tesla and Apple, I fully expect for other Tesla or Apple consumers to blame me for everything wrong and defend the company blindly against all common reason.

Good brands to avoid for this reason, even if they do make enviable hardware sometimes.

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