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Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

theatlantic.com

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Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#201

Post by ROTMetro »

kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #177
ROTMetro wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

The displacement of Ukrainian children is awful, but also occurred in all these other conflicts. The flow of refugees is also awful, as is the imposition of the conqueror's ideology, but that happened in Iraq too. All the other effects are speculative and caused as much by US/EU sanctions (which have historically never accomplished their goals and have not had their intended effect even in this conflict) as they are…

No post body was provided.

Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#202

Post by ROTMetro »

kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #133
qaq wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 1 major critique: What "major" battlefield successes?

The taking of Mariupol, all of Luhansk and most of Donetsk have been successes. They've been hard fought, grinding successes, but successes nonetheless.

Russia controls less territory today than it did in March, yet I am told that Ukraine losing territory in July is losing, Russia losing more territory and not recovering it in March is not Russia losing.

Funny goal posts seem to get used a lot in this conflict.

Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#203

Post by kergonath »

riku_iki wrote: post #197
kergonath wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen very few people contesting his election. It’s the snipers shooting at crowds and sending the army to the Maidan square that people really objected to. Also, his cosying up with Putin and showing the finger to the EU. And corruption.

He also changed constitution without proper due process shifting lots of power from parliament to president.

Ah yes, forgot to mention that. That was another big reason why people were on Maidan in the first place.

Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#204

Post by lbrito »

ROTMetro wrote: post #198
lbrito wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. This is the absolute core of the issue. "On France’s BFM TV, journalist Phillipe Corbé stated this about Ukraine: “We’re not talking here about Syrians fleeing the bombing of the Syrian regime backed by Putin. We’re talking about Europeans leaving in cars that look like ours to save their lives." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/02/civili...

So proximity and culture. I instantly place myself and my family in those cars fleeing Ukraine, I relate easier because it's familiar. My human empathy and compassion is not evil, and your attempts to weaponize it are gross and deny human nature and realities of the human experience. I also watch more movies in English in settings I am familiar with or better know the context of (Western history versus eastern). I al…

This is wrong in so many levels.

What does eating Thai food have to do with anything? I sense you tried to make an analogy, but it's so obtuse I honestly can't imagine what you were thinking.

Are you honestly saying that empathy is dependent on culture or nationality? That is some pre-enlightenment thinking right there. I thought we civilized westerners had evolved towards universal empathy, all humankind is equal and all that.

You conspicuously left out one thing. It's a biggie. Proximity and culture and RACE.

I recommend you read the article I linked. If you're okay with the statements such as "they are not like the [savage middle easterners], they are blue-eyed like us", then it is an honor to be antagonized by you. I would be disgusted to have someone who thinks that agree with me.

Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#205

Post by sparkbII »

nineplay wrote: post #125
inanutshellus wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there was an inference that the books are opaque, just that people reading these books in 2022 are already weird ducks. Well, as weird as anyone reading, say, Tao Te Ching or other non-standard-academic-curriculum "classic" books you'd have to go out of your way to read.

One of my nits is implications that Great Works require some sort of extra mental exertion. I've read many Great Works and it's not just that Crime and Punishment is better than As the Crawdads Sing but it is also more engaging. People think that these books shouldn't be read without understanding Russian history or society and without careful comparisons of the best translations but it isn't necessary. One of my man…

While you don't need to study history, you should definitely read the Wikipedia article on Napoleon's invasion of Russia before starting War and Peace. Not even from an intellectual standpoint, but to just so you're not taken out of the book every other sentence by another reference to a figure or event.

Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#207

Post by danenania »

nineplay wrote: post #125
inanutshellus wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there was an inference that the books are opaque, just that people reading these books in 2022 are already weird ducks. Well, as weird as anyone reading, say, Tao Te Ching or other non-standard-academic-curriculum "classic" books you'd have to go out of your way to read.

One of my nits is implications that Great Works require some sort of extra mental exertion. I've read many Great Works and it's not just that Crime and Punishment is better than As the Crawdads Sing but it is also more engaging. People think that these books shouldn't be read without understanding Russian history or society and without careful comparisons of the best translations but it isn't necessary. One of my man…

I'd chalk up some of that to bad/archaic translations. An overwrought translation can easily transform a page-turner into a slog.

It's always worth researching translations to make sure you find the best, most readable one before embarking on a non-English classic.

Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#208

Post by ROTMetro »

lbrito wrote: post #204
ROTMetro wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So proximity and culture. I instantly place myself and my family in those cars fleeing Ukraine, I relate easier because it's familiar. My human empathy and compassion is not evil, and your attempts to weaponize it are gross and deny human nature and realities of the human experience. I also watch more movies in English in settings I am familiar with or better know the context of (Western history versus eastern). I al…

This is wrong in so many levels. What does eating Thai food have to do with anything? I sense you tried to make an analogy, but it's so obtuse I honestly can't imagine what you were thinking. Are you honestly saying that empathy is dependent on culture or nationality? That is some pre-enlightenment thinking right there. I thought we civilized westerners had evolved towards universal empathy, all humankind is equal an…

No post body was provided.

Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#209

Post by ROTMetro »

lbrito wrote: post #204
ROTMetro wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So proximity and culture. I instantly place myself and my family in those cars fleeing Ukraine, I relate easier because it's familiar. My human empathy and compassion is not evil, and your attempts to weaponize it are gross and deny human nature and realities of the human experience. I also watch more movies in English in settings I am familiar with or better know the context of (Western history versus eastern). I al…

This is wrong in so many levels. What does eating Thai food have to do with anything? I sense you tried to make an analogy, but it's so obtuse I honestly can't imagine what you were thinking. Are you honestly saying that empathy is dependent on culture or nationality? That is some pre-enlightenment thinking right there. I thought we civilized westerners had evolved towards universal empathy, all humankind is equal an…

I notice you don't mention conflicts in Ethiopia, Eritrea, or Sudan that have accumulated 300,000–500,000 fatalities. I notice you don't mention the ongoing conflict in Myanmar. I can only assume it's because of racism against black Africans and Asians.

Re: Don’t Blame Dostoyevsky

#210

Post by qaq »

kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #133
qaq wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 1 major critique: What "major" battlefield successes?

The taking of Mariupol, all of Luhansk and most of Donetsk have been successes. They've been hard fought, grinding successes, but successes nonetheless.

They don't control all of Luhansk and they don't control most of Donetsk oblast. I'd lay off from russian TV for a bit :) The goal was to take Kyiv in 3 days and install puppet government they have not accomplished that and have not taken a single major city in Ukraine despite Kharkiv being 40km from the border. So no for self proclaimed worlds 2nd army they have not accomplished a single strategic goal let alone the goal of the campaign.
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