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Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

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91–100 of 121 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#91
post #59

Can my mom get started with it in under 5 minutes? If not, it will never see wide adoption.

Can your mom get started with Paypal in 5 minutes? When I set up a Paypal account recently, it took days to "get started", because that's how long it took them to verify my bank account.

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#92
post #68
post #59

Can my mom get started with it in under 5 minutes? If not, it will never see wide adoption.

As I mentioned in another thread, this is where MobileCoin excels. I encourage people to give it a try. The only problem right now is buying the MobileCoin in the first place. I live in the U.S. and the process was, uh, sketchy at best. But if the payer in the transaction already has MobileCoin, it's a breeze from there. If your mom can do Venmo, she can do it. It's instant, fees are basically zero, it shows you the…

> The only problem right now is buying the MobileCoin in the first place.

That... seems like a necessary part of "get started"?

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#93
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So you're left with things which are (rightly or wrongly) illegal. Or incredibly taboo. While I mostly agree with what you wrote, I take exception to this. Wanting more privacy can be an ends in itself. Of course, as I said, I agree with you, this doesn’t really broaden the pool of people who need Monero by a meaningful amount ;)

> Wanting more privacy can be an ends in itself. People who are willing to jump through hoops to marginally increase their privacy and the companies willing to similarly jump through hoops to cater to these people are a subset of the overall population. Gotta break out of this subset to achieve the wide adoption OP was talking about.

Yes, I mentioned that in my 2nd sentence.

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#95
post #68
post #59

Can my mom get started with it in under 5 minutes? If not, it will never see wide adoption.

As I mentioned in another thread, this is where MobileCoin excels. I encourage people to give it a try. The only problem right now is buying the MobileCoin in the first place. I live in the U.S. and the process was, uh, sketchy at best. But if the payer in the transaction already has MobileCoin, it's a breeze from there. If your mom can do Venmo, she can do it. It's instant, fees are basically zero, it shows you the…

Your drawback of Mobilecoin is identical to Monero.

Once you have Monero on a mobile wallet, its just as easy to send it.

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#96
post #88
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of the properties listed in that comparison table make it a worse currency. The prime ones being poor scalability (not only large txs but also having to track all historical outputs, not just the unspent ones) and poor second layer support (no relative time locks).

This list doesn't even list the important properties of a currency, such at it being fungible or it being cheap to transfer, both which directly disqualify Bitcoin. Also, both of the ones you list are the same (scalability), whose purpose is to keep transfer fees low. Which, again, Bitcoin utterly fails at.

Fungibility is split out into three separate properties: Hides amounts, Hides addresses, Hides the transaction graph (untraceability).

Bitcoin tx fees are near all time lows [1] although many people still overpay. And lightning fees are way lower still.

[1] https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC,24h,weight

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#97
post #16

As with anything - what's the user need? The vast majority of people don't seem fazed about their credit card company knowing they've bought a sex toy. Hell, if Amex offered double-cashback at PornHub I expect they'd be inundated. For those which do want a bit more privacy, it's dead easy to buy a single-use gift card or cash card. Will that stop the police from tracing you? No, but it makes it harder for a company t…

Strong disagree. There are two reasons.

1 - A tiny percentage of crypto holders regularly use crypto as a currency, most people just use it as a store of wealth (ie digital gold) or a way to speculate/gamble.

2 - You can't buy it on Coinbase, because the US government can't track its usage so Coinbase would lose their regulatory advantage if they allowed it on their exchange.

So that means it's more difficult for the average person to acquire, and at this point most people are using crypto more like stocks than currency so they'll just speculate on something that's easier to get their hands on.

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always wondered how much money laundering is in mining. It seems pretty benign to buy a whole bunch of CPU/GPUs on the used market and then have them mine you cryptocurrencies (not just monero, but notably monero is CPU favorable). This might be a massive onramp for fiat to cryptocurrencies. A quick google talks a lot about tumblers and other buy/sell strategies, but I'm curious about mining. I would hate to b…

I admit that this is speculation because I don't have the free time or desire to do some sort of deep dive, but the NFT market absolutely reeks of money laundering. Point being - why bother going through all that effort to actually mine stuff when you can just buy and sell NFTs a few times to clean money.

> through all that effort to actually mine stuff when you can just buy and sell NFTs

Because buy and sell NFTs leaves a ledger trail that can lead you to your cash onramp being illegitimate money.

Whereas minted money is legitimate by default (and has no ledger history).

I suppose the IRS could ask "where'd the money to buy 1000 GPUs come from" though? IDK, I'm not smart enough to be a criminal :lol:

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#99
post #16

As with anything - what's the user need? The vast majority of people don't seem fazed about their credit card company knowing they've bought a sex toy. Hell, if Amex offered double-cashback at PornHub I expect they'd be inundated. For those which do want a bit more privacy, it's dead easy to buy a single-use gift card or cash card. Will that stop the police from tracing you? No, but it makes it harder for a company t…

It’s no small irony that the simplest answer is the right answer here: you can’t force consumers to use your product. They need a reason to use it, and none of the current ones are sufficiently compelling.

Also, if the ecosystem was rooted in scams, it infects any sort of idea that would come out of the ecosystem... The very basis of money that relies on computers, computer networks, and related infrastructure when all of these aspects of our lives fail on us regularly even now in the year 2022 just seems plain scammy in general with all of the other societal and environmental risks we are dealing with.

In crisis, only the most adventurous ones of us gamble, any grow addicted to it, and most lose... A lot.

The traditional rule books are key to survivability in tough business times... Tangible goods and services, a deep focus on quality, reasonably paced sales growth, customer support, low dependency on external factors and suppliers... Crypto and Web3 represents none of those things, and that's why a lot of the time it is based solely on marketing vapor, and also why many don't want to invest in it (unless perhaps they are addicted to gambling or unless they want to promote a particular aspect of it for their own personal financial gain).

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#100
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fair enough, so your claim is essentially that people likely would, but are struggling to survive in the short run and therefore the long run is basically presumed to not matter?

It does matter, but first things first. If you struggle to breathe your first priority won't be finding food, but your entire energy will go into solving the most urgent problem.

Yeah I get that, I guess for me I just see it like . Imagine some town with lots of manufacturing jobs and so many people are shopping at walmart for foreign made wares. How does it not click "If people dont buy local our local made wares, how will our factory stay open?" . I'm not saying so much like right right now, it's obviously too late in many industries to go back any time soon. But like in the 70s-90s, why didn't people working in these industries have the foresight to realize if we dont buy local made wares, there's no need for factory workers here, and if there's no need for factory workers here, there's no need for manager, and if there's no need for managers, the company could just be entirely in the foreign nation. And if if it's in the foreign nation, how are we going to get money to feed ourselves and pay our mortgages (keep the property values at least level) ...

It seems like it was more like "Well I could have a TV now, or a TV + Microwave now" and that was the micro decisions that lead to a hollowing out of the labor force.

I'm just armchair speculating here, happy to learn more in a concise way (ie doesnt require me to go get a degree on the subject) .

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