Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

news.ycombinator.com

31–40 of 121 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#31
I think the fiat on/off ramps are a large problem for Monero, I say this as someone who is a huge proponent of Monero and would like to see adoption rise.

It is only offered on one exchange (Kraken) which inherently limits availability, there are certain vendors who do accept Monero such as Mullvad, and a popular wallet for iOS (CakeWallet) will soon allow you to redeem Giftcards for Monero.

Right now, if I gave my friend 1 XMR, what could he do with it?

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#32
There are basically two compelling reasons to use a privacy coin:

- You are doing something illegal and don't want to get caught.

- Powerful actors in the economy are abusing their power, and you want to avoid/prevent that abuse.

Most people are not criminals, so let's focus on the second use-case.

If the government created a 1000% tax on all person-to-person transactions, you can bet nearly everyone would switch off of Venmo or Cash App and onto something like Monero. Or if Apple/Google said "we are now going to monitor your bank accounts, and we will be taking a share of all purchases made from your phone," you can bet people would switch.

Another type of abuse might be political. "We will be compiling a list of everyone who donates to the opposing party."

One might argue that those abuses of power already exist, and are already actively harming the average consumer. For example, Experian's multiple data breaches[0]. But the thing is, the average person doesn't feel very affected. If you came after their Venmo or their bank account, they'd feel it.

In a way, I think privacy coins are already benefiting all of us. The "powers that be" know that it's possible for us to switch, and that we will switch if they push us too hard. So they don't push us as hard as they could.

I also want to point out: MobileCoin. Your premise seems to be that privacy-focused coins aren't in wide use, but I don't think that's a certainty. Signal has deployed MobileCoin to potentially hundreds of millions of people. But they are secretive about their numbers, so we don't know how widely it's really used. I've tried MobileCoin with friends who use Signal and it works great. They will surely beat out Monero and others, simply due to the ease-of-use they've created, and the integration with an already-widely-used private messenger.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experian#2015_data_breach

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#33
post #24

Is there any nice DEX that lets you trade Solana for Monero and vice versa? I want to do some commerce in Monero but since Monero is banned on most/all marketplaces, it'd be nice to get it easily via decentralized exchange swapping it for Solana. Doing commerce with Monero and then swapping it back to Solana and later FIAT. I assume the issue with this setup even if one builds it, you still have to tell the governmen…

Reason this is interesting I think is that such a setup can let you avoid paying tax to totalitarian regimes such as Russia/China that use the money to crush opposition or wage war. As well as minimize fees in general such as Mastercard/Stripe.

Maybe it’s just a hopeless dream.

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#34
post #16

As with anything - what's the user need? The vast majority of people don't seem fazed about their credit card company knowing they've bought a sex toy. Hell, if Amex offered double-cashback at PornHub I expect they'd be inundated. For those which do want a bit more privacy, it's dead easy to buy a single-use gift card or cash card. Will that stop the police from tracing you? No, but it makes it harder for a company t…

It’s no small irony that the simplest answer is the right answer here: you can’t force consumers to use your product. They need a reason to use it, and none of the current ones are sufficiently compelling.

I've always wondered why consumers seem to lack foresight though? Like the foresight of governmental / corporate dystopias due to information asymmetries.

or foresight that exclusively buying goods manufactured abroad will eventually affect your home price as your neighbors one by one lose their local jobs...

Do we know why people act in such a way?

Edit: I'm quite shocked at the deep presumption of negativity. I was genuinely trying to discuss and explore the phenomenon of choosing long term detriment for short term gain.

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#36
post #4

> I consider Web3/NFTs to be a scam Not all NFTs are the same or even JPEGs. 90% of them are useless though. The blockchain domains are the only valid NFTs that cannot be right-click saved and are useful. > the only utility I see in cryptocurrency is the anonymous and decentralized transfer of value. > However interestingly the coins that do this well like Monero are not seeing wide adoption. The regulators would lik…

The regulators are acting in the interest of society, to a first order. People actively don’t want privacy and decentralization because it means crime, theft, and economic instability.

Money was initially private and decentralized. When it lost those attributes theft and economic instability became the norm.

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#37
No one is backing them. Users don't care about how crypto works they care if the product works. Take applepay for example, majority of merchants use it because users want to pay with it. Users don't care about a lecture on privacy and government overreach. Tell them it does 2 tap/click payment and also it manages your cc and then give merchants free crypto payment terminals. You can onlh use it online and only if the site owner cares enough.

Tell site owners "here is a service that manages all payments including a ton kf crypto and converts it to uour local currency, also, users can sign up with us and use as an idp so they don't have to register on your site" .

In other words, an Oauth2 extension for payment processing providers + federated identity and services that provide easy integration into your registration+payment workflow might be lacking. Also, with any crypto it is a PITA to just obtain crypto without KYC laws, so more accessible exchanges that are somewhat anonymous without needing Tor that let you barter cash or other payment with them (not other users, it's a mess) might help too.

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#38
post #24

Is there any nice DEX that lets you trade Solana for Monero and vice versa? I want to do some commerce in Monero but since Monero is banned on most/all marketplaces, it'd be nice to get it easily via decentralized exchange swapping it for Solana. Doing commerce with Monero and then swapping it back to Solana and later FIAT. I assume the issue with this setup even if one builds it, you still have to tell the governmen…

I don't know of any DEX that does this currently, I'd be happy to make the exchange though

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#39
post #5

From what I've read, some of the online drug markets only take Monero. So it would seem people who realize they need anonymity are indeed embracing it.

I'm not going to say they are the most technologically sophisticated marketplaces per se. Not doubting that this might be some obvious "litmus" test.

However, I'm willing to bet this is simply due to face value claims around Monero and not because the last mile problems are solved or its provably anonymous was considered in earnest and thereby vetted deeply.

Re: Ask HN: Why are privacy coins like Monero not seeing wide adoption?

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s no small irony that the simplest answer is the right answer here: you can’t force consumers to use your product. They need a reason to use it, and none of the current ones are sufficiently compelling.

I've always wondered why consumers seem to lack foresight though? Like the foresight of governmental / corporate dystopias due to information asymmetries. or foresight that exclusively buying goods manufactured abroad will eventually affect your home price as your neighbors one by one lose their local jobs... Do we know why people act in such a way? Edit: I'm quite shocked at the deep presumption of negativity. I was…

Your comment reads as incredibly tone-deaf, but I'll give it an honest answer.

Hierarchy of needs. Maslow is obviously not accurate, but people focus on basic survival and prioritize themselves and their families first. You do not even reach the level of contemplation of politics until you have food, shelter, comfort and a degree of safety. Most Americans struggle to satisfy all of these consistently.

If you want more people to care about privacy, solve their basic needs first. Then they will care about big picture items.

Post reply on HN