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The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

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Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#421

Post by vel0city »

alex7734 wrote: post #371
eertvertvbw wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

still waiting on the secure boot lockdown everyone has insisted is coming for the better part of two decades...

The goal is not to prevent you from running Linux, is to make it so that Linux cannot access the content you are interested in. Remote Attestation establishes a root of trust that can be used to verify that all of the software down the line is "approved": - You won't be able to browse sites or use apps with ads unless you run a 'trusted' device, OS and browser that does not block ads. - You won't be able to browse si…

As someone who enjoys hacking, looking at that list sounds terrible.

As a regular user, most of that list doesn't sound too bad. Their future devices will automatically have these features enabled, they're not likely to change those settings to "break" their device (from the perspective of Trusted Computing) so they'll have a smooth experience getting into it.

- Can't block ads? A lot of average users already don't/don't know how, but this one would probably would affect a lot of people. Probably a bad thing no matter how you slice it.

- They'll have a better experience online as they won't be interrupted with captchas. Wouldn't you prefer if you never experienced captchas and logins were smoother and easier? So a wash to a positive for an average user.

- This makes it an easier deal for streaming services to let you cache their DRM'd content offline and makes the deals they have to cut with media companies potentially cheaper. Once again they're probably buying off the shelf computing devices which will probably work seamlessly with these restrictions, so they either won't notice anything or potentially get more features than they have now with those services they're already using. I'm not necessarily a fan of DRM but the market has largely spoken, people prefer streaming rather than actually owning the media.

- Fewer cheaters in online games sure sounds like a positive to me.

- My bank account online is more secure? This is a bad thing?

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#422

Post by tomc1985 »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #412
tomc1985 wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All these folks trying to "pay their bills" have laid waste to a verdant field of possibility. Everything nice that they offer eventually gets changed or taken away. Yes, I'm bitter. We could have a much better world, one that actually empowers anyone willing to step up to the plate, but instead we grab all the low-hanging fruit so we can make them smile and step on workers' rights to deliver them burritos, instead.…

If smart people were smarter they’d open their wallets and support the things they like. Instead the reaction is often, why would I pay so much for something that I could build myself. So the real market is for the very smart people and that’s an even smaller minority. I built super advanced tech but was intentionally screwed over by my large corporate customers, just because they could, so I quit the industry and th…

I'm not convinced this is about smartness, so much as an ability and willingness for people to learn.

Learning is hard, it makes people uncomfortable, sadly. Which means that the easy road is to stoop to their level, which is what we're seeing.

It sucks that you got screwed by large corporations, and I don't know the story, but that sounds more like standard business fuckery than "software for smart people"?

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#423

Post by sdlfakjslkdjfs »

axblount wrote: post #391
acdha wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning their use in classrooms is lesser but still a step on that path, and the same Republicans trying to do that are not going to stop at schools after they win but will rather see that as an invigorating first step in a long campaign. For example, book sellers in Virginia are currently fighting a lawsuit against an attempt which would ban private sales: https://www.virginiamercury.com/2022/07/06/free-speech-group…

Quoted post unavailable.

OK then you agree that Amazon taking down Irreversible Damage was wrong, and that it should also be in every school library, or it's obviously a sign that the Left is going to ban books everywhere?

Removing something from a curriculum is not the same as banning it. There are many more books that are not in school libraries than there are books that are in them.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#424

Post by reedjosh »

_23sd wrote: post #350
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The capacity for abuse is huge, way beyong the potential benefits. From the USA, we get news of banned book in some states. When I read that, my head goes back to my european history, and I reach the Godwin point very quickly. Those kind of people will abuse such system to prevent things to be shared. It will be used for putting DRM on everything and create a more and more closed web. It will be used by corporations…

If you want to use the OS to ban a book or program or whatever, you don't need fancy hardware features, just a database of hashes pushed down via a software update. Apple wanted to do a version of this for CSAM images, it only didn't happen because they chose to tell users about it and got massive backlash. The implication that governments need more powerful DRM features to do something similar just obscures the fact…

But at least you could load your own OS.

Chip manufacturers could even decide that nothing good happens on open source operating systems, so you're now only allowed to run Mac or Windows operating systems.

The point is really that they're taking full ownership of the chips from you.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#425

Post by merlincorey »

axblount wrote: post #391
acdha wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning their use in classrooms is lesser but still a step on that path, and the same Republicans trying to do that are not going to stop at schools after they win but will rather see that as an invigorating first step in a long campaign. For example, book sellers in Virginia are currently fighting a lawsuit against an attempt which would ban private sales: https://www.virginiamercury.com/2022/07/06/free-speech-group…

Quoted post unavailable.

As a bit of an Anarcho-Libertarian who is often in the middle of these conversations from either side, I would imagine part of the problem is your framing of this issue as if it is only coming from one direction, when there is plenty of evidence that both sides are into things like banning books[0] it's just a question of which books they want banned.

[0] When It Comes to Banning Books, Both Right and Left Are Guilty | Opinion: https://www.newsweek.com/when-it-comes-banning-books-both-ri...

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#427

Post by reedjosh »

_23sd wrote: post #333
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same things that make it good in a corporate environment can make it abusive in a personal machine. By forcing the kernel to be untamperable, Microsoft can arbitrarily enforce ANY policy they choose on your PC. They could spy on every single piece of network communication. They could ban any given software from being able to run on Windows - maybe Chrome, maybe Steam, any competitor at all. They actually could ea…

Microsoft doesn't need an "untamperable" kernel to force spying on users. Windows 10/11 has horrible invasive telemetry that can't be disabled, but no one has figured out how to modify the OS and strip it out, all the "solutions" involve temporarily disabling services or blocking network traffic. Is there actually some new capability here that points to future surveillance and censorship, or are you just fitting ever…

But you can install your own OS. You can't disable this tool via another OS.

Particularly now that heterogeneous computing is making it big, video decoding can easily just be made not to work unless this tech stack okays it--regardless of the OS.

This chip could all out disable other operating systems if they don't provide the spyware telemetry that Microsoft requires.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#428

Post by rockemsockem »

ajvs wrote: post #87
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ron DeSantis doesn't need hardware-level DRM to ban math books. https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2022/05/06/florida-ba... If you're worried about book bannings in states like Florida, DeSantis is up for reelection in just over 3 months . Go volunteer or donate money to his opponent (probably Charlie Crist).

Mein Kampf is a banned book which I don't think many would disagree with. There are many other such books filled with propaganda that are rightly banned. I don't see why other propaganda-filled books that are being pushed on unsuspecting children shouldn't be banned too, unless the only reason is that you dislike the direction of the propaganda.

If you're in the US there are not really any truly banned books. There are books that are banned from certain libraries (mostly school libraries).

But, imagine that a school adopts the DRM processes described in the article and requires this study level of control even on personal devices that are used for school. Suddenly those book bans can be enforced digitally by the school and will totally cut off access to certain books that the school chooses.

You might say that it's within the school's rights to do this for a device that is used for school and if you don't like it then use a different device. Now that's a system where there is a class-divide on the information that one is physically able to consume on their devices.

You might think Mein Kampf is ban-worthy, but the whole point is actually that you should not ban any book at all, because once you start banning books it becomes far too easy for more books to be banned. All it will take is one regime change in a school district's PTA for new books, that you maybe think should not be banned, to be added to the list.

It's worth considering the most banned books in America. His Dark Materials. A fantastic young adult fantasy novel that pokes harder at religion than some Christians can bear.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#429

Post by reedjosh »

_abox wrote: post #272
dx034 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Secure chips like this are already in all devices but PCs. And in none of these areas has any of that happened. Quite the opposite, Apple got a fine when they slowed down older devices to save battery (at least what they said). So the government will clearly help out here. And none of these companies has an incentives to stop sales to smaller companies, they make a lot of money with those.

Try to install a BitTorrent client on your iphone, or a game emulator, a sexually explicit game or even a browser with a different engine. All this has already happened since 2008 when the app store came out.

But you could work around it at the software level.

With this tech stack, you wouldn't be able to.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#430

Post by merlincorey »

bongobingo1 wrote: post #199
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mein Kampf is not banned in my country, I can buy it, and I think everybody should be able to read it. You cannot defend against something you don't understand. Reading it (or the little red book), you will notice there is nothing incredible about it. It's a good way to understand the banality of evil. It's a good way to see what currently in our society echoes it: we are not freed from evil, it can come back any tim…

Ironically Harry Potter was banned at my school. (Witchcraft!)

Apparently it has also been banned in places for Fatphobia among other progressive reasons[0].

[0] When It Comes to Banning Books, Both Right and Left Are Guilty | Opinion: https://www.newsweek.com/when-it-comes-banning-books-both-ri...

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