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The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

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Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#401

Post by bambax »

__void wrote: post #66

nowadays 98% of things implying "security" are actually unwanted products, protections for "the other side" or trivial distortions of reality where, conveyed by "security" itself, the user himself becomes the product - no, I don't need protections for the side channel, I never asked for them - no, I don't need a unique identifier, who is the demented person who asked you for it - no, I am not going to glitch the powe…

Could not agree more. Security only means control. I don't want security. I don't even want safety. I have never cared about either, and I'm now too old to die young, so I'm not afraid.

> "not secure by design" nowadays comes close to being a coveted feature

That's a huge market opportunity. I would buy "insecure" products over secure ones every time.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#402

Post by RajT88 »

autoexec wrote: post #273
hammyhavoc wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the way it's been for several versions now with scripts to disable all the telemetry and shovelware?

As far as I know there are no scripts that are capable of disabling all of the telemetry and nothing that can't be undone the instant the computer has an internet connection and connects to windows update.

Yes, you'll likely have to keep re-doing it.

As far as scripts for it, this thread has some sage advice:

https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/n3v0s5/disable_win...

The tools to disable telemetry and bloat:

https://github.com/irmatade/sharpapp https://www.oo-software.com/fr/shutup10 https://github.com/Sycnex/Windows10Debloater

MSFT doc on what all telemetry is gathered, and what is considered "required" telemetry (although they give you enough info to block it at the router):

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/configure-w...

I do like Win10 as an OS. On the whole I'd say the Satya era of MSFT is a mixed bag, but better on the whole than it was before.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#403

Post by cjbgkagh »

tomc1985 wrote: post #375
api wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason the OSS community has had no impact is that it's never managed to produce software that regular non-tech-geeks want to use. The reason it's never managed to do that is lack of an economic model to finance the incredible amount of work required to make software usable by normal people. I've been saying this ad nauseum forever and I'm not the only one. A related problem is that the OSS world is mostly tech e…

This atrocious attitude is absolutely why software is such a hellscape of shitty UI and lack of features. Normies should be eating our table scraps, not dictating how the software is written. Normies learned how to drive a car. They can learn how to properly compute. And if they don't like the tech, they don't have to use the tech. OSS is the last bastion of computing for people who know/like computing, because the a…

Normies pay the bills.

Smart people are a surprisingly small minority.

"No one in this world, so far as I know ... has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people." - H. L. Mencken

I know plenty of people, myself included, who lost money overestimating peoples intelligence.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#404

Post by turns0ut »

jjoonathan wrote: post #378
VoodooJuJu wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so true, but I'm trying to imagine a normie's reaction to reading this, and all I'm coming up with is, "This guy is a paranoid schizo, back to TikTok for me...", and so unfortunately, I don't see us steering away from this fate anytime soon. These people won't respect you until you start taking their money. Become one of their techno-corporate overloads. Demonstrate how you're controlling/profiting off them, why…

An economic niche supports one or two overlords, not a bunch of them. You and I aren't overlords. We need a different strategy. People have become aware and angry that tech monopolies are exploitative. The winning strategy will involve focusing this fuzzy, ambient anger at a concrete target. Once Pluton outs itself as an exercise in naked monopolistic power covered by a fig leaf of security -- and it will, as all hus…

I don’t have a problem with central organization of effort; mathematician by education; there a real efficiencies in material use and lack of redundancy.

The real problem is continued deference to old ownership memes; that a minority must be empowered due to past contract none of us were even alive to see signed. How do we know in real terms the truth given a past we can never experience?

Historical trends are one thing; that Bezos specifically is that special is another. This is the first period in history where the elders could hold power this long. It’s tacit ageism and everyone is too scared to say that to old people who would collapse in shock at the slightest whiff of real pushback, they’re so used to being coddled; they’re hardly a real threat.

Start telling your elders their past success does not give them ownership of the future.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#405

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

squarefoot wrote: post #389
londons_explore wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can take their money and still they won't care. Think about how many devices in a typical users home are incompatible for business reasons - for example that Chromecast that refuses to play Amazon prime movies. Or the iPhone charger cable that won't fit into an android. Users just live with it. "My weird laptop doesn't support the school WiFi" is the same.

We should thank widespread technical illiteracy for this: "Devices are from different vendors? Of course they can't share the same services or charger!" Marketers just love this, for enabling them to sell multiple times the same thing. What if basic technology familiarity (which has absolutely nothing to do with knowing how to use the latest gadget) and resistance to manipulative advertising was taught in school? Tha…

There is no objective proof that Charger A is better than B. Not typically. There are preferences, and those will lead way to eventually a market that picks a winner - maybe, typically, IDK, free market works when it's actually free. Which it isn't a lot times people rant about it.

The absolute worst thing we could do is go to Apple or anyone else and say "You need to use this x or y, because someone else does". That isn't going to breed innovation, ever.

Do I wish Apple used USB-C on phones? Definitely. Does it actually change anything for me day to day except I need a specfic cable if my phone runs dead? Not really because my chances aren't a ton better running into a USB-C on demand. I want Apple to. I would buy an Apple phone with it if given the option. I would never sign-on to force Apple to do it.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#406

Post by tomc1985 »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #403
tomc1985 wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This atrocious attitude is absolutely why software is such a hellscape of shitty UI and lack of features. Normies should be eating our table scraps, not dictating how the software is written. Normies learned how to drive a car. They can learn how to properly compute. And if they don't like the tech, they don't have to use the tech. OSS is the last bastion of computing for people who know/like computing, because the a…

Normies pay the bills. Smart people are a surprisingly small minority. "No one in this world, so far as I know ... has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people." - H. L. Mencken I know plenty of people, myself included, who lost money overestimating peoples intelligence.

All these folks trying to "pay their bills" have laid waste to a verdant field of possibility.

Everything nice that they offer eventually gets changed or taken away.

Yes, I'm bitter. We could have a much better world, one that actually empowers anyone willing to step up to the plate, but instead we grab all the low-hanging fruit so we can make them smile and step on workers' rights to deliver them burritos, instead.

A happy cohort is an obedient cohort, amiright?

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#407

Post by RajT88 »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #276

Is this the part where they extinguish Linux (except for where they've embraced it with WSL)?

No. MSFT has bet the business on Cloud and while the virtualization stack they use is Hyper-V, they have a TON of products running Linux under the hood in the cloud.

A big chunk (I don't know the real number, but it's closer to 50% than 10%) of customer vm's on Azure are running Linux.

All this to say, MSFT is highly invested in the Linux ecosystem. They would be shooting themselves in the foot to try and kill it off at this point.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#408

Post by bencollier49 »

bambax wrote: post #401
__void wrote: post #66

nowadays 98% of things implying "security" are actually unwanted products, protections for "the other side" or trivial distortions of reality where, conveyed by "security" itself, the user himself becomes the product - no, I don't need protections for the side channel, I never asked for them - no, I don't need a unique identifier, who is the demented person who asked you for it - no, I am not going to glitch the powe…

Could not agree more. Security only means control. I don't want security. I don't even want safety. I have never cared about either, and I'm now too old to die young, so I'm not afraid. > "not secure by design" nowadays comes close to being a coveted feature That's a huge market opportunity. I would buy "insecure" products over secure ones every time.

Ah, but it won't work on the internet once ISPs are forced to use remote attestation to prove you're using a government approved device.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#409

Post by _23sd »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #390
_23sd wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to use the OS to ban a book or program or whatever, you don't need fancy hardware features, just a database of hashes pushed down via a software update. Apple wanted to do a version of this for CSAM images, it only didn't happen because they chose to tell users about it and got massive backlash. The implication that governments need more powerful DRM features to do something similar just obscures the fact…

The EU just mandated chats to be scanned for content. Of course just for CSAM just as the meta data collection is only used for terrorism. Problem is that the latter is also used for parking tickets. They really try to hit the definition of a totalitarian state by the letter.

Wider E2EE adoption was the only hope for clawing back some privacy for users who do everything on cloud services. If the EU bans E2EE and starts mandating all kinds of scanning of data stored on third party servers, it would be a massive loss.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#410

Post by kelseyfrog »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #405
squarefoot wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should thank widespread technical illiteracy for this: "Devices are from different vendors? Of course they can't share the same services or charger!" Marketers just love this, for enabling them to sell multiple times the same thing. What if basic technology familiarity (which has absolutely nothing to do with knowing how to use the latest gadget) and resistance to manipulative advertising was taught in school? Tha…

There is no objective proof that Charger A is better than B. Not typically. There are preferences, and those will lead way to eventually a market that picks a winner - maybe, typically, IDK, free market works when it's actually free. Which it isn't a lot times people rant about it. The absolute worst thing we could do is go to Apple or anyone else and say "You need to use this x or y, because someone else does". That…

> There are preferences, and those will lead way to eventually a market that picks a winner - maybe, typically, IDK, free market works when it's actually free.

Exactly! We saw precisely this thing with cell phone chargers. Not enough people recognize this.

A healthy dose of market realism is in order - if the market doesn't deliver what people want, it's not the market, it's the people who are wrong.

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