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After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

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Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#41

Post by absolutelynobo »

jeffbee wrote: post #31

Battery buses are a solution ahead of their time. Any old bus is better than car-based transportation, so shifting modes from car to bus is more important than changing the energy source of the bus. If shifting from car to bus is impossible because of built environment, that's the first priority. Buses powered by batteries should be way down at the end of the TODO list. If you absolutely insist on having buses that a…

The stunning failure of Nikola or any other large-scale fuel cell company other than Toyota to deliver working FC vehicles really calls into question your characterization of hydrogen as “more mature” than batteries. Every FC vehicle is also an EV, just FYI.

One would also wonder why China has ~0 fuel cell buses and tens of thousands of electric buses if FC is the more mature tech.

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#42

Post by aaronmdjones »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #23
ShakataGaNai wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The napalm bomb you're speaking of is made of gasoline. Which is in most cars and vehicles on the road. So you're less afraid of something designed to catch fire and explode (gas) than something that is designed to operate safely at it's core (batteries)? That just doesn't make sense. Other than being afraid of new technology. And that's totally ok. Its fine to say you don't like change or new technologies. There is…

When was the last time you heard of a gasoline fire in a modern vehicle? Why is it that EV fires are so common? > Other than being afraid of new technology. ... but then you resorted to ad hominem. Why would someone have to be "afraid" of new technology in order to have serious and legitimate concerns about it? To help you out a bit, we also saw very bad lithium battery issues in laptops about ten years ago (just sea…

> When was the last time you heard of a gasoline fire in a modern vehicle?

A fire in an ICE car 2 months ago shut down our local motorway for over 50 minutes during rush hour. A month prior to that, someone ran their ICE car off the road into a field; it caught fire and the driver died.

ICE vehicle fires are common. The difference is that EV vehicle fires are more widely reported upon. You see more stories about EV vehicle fires than ICE vehicle fires, so you think they happen more often.

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#43

Post by throwaway0a5e »

jeffbee wrote: post #31

Battery buses are a solution ahead of their time. Any old bus is better than car-based transportation, so shifting modes from car to bus is more important than changing the energy source of the bus. If shifting from car to bus is impossible because of built environment, that's the first priority. Buses powered by batteries should be way down at the end of the TODO list. If you absolutely insist on having buses that a…

Buses and other "same route local delivery" type vehicles are a prime candidate for electrification TODAY because the short and known daily mileage plus always returning to the same spot at downtime sidesteps a lot of the range/charger problems that push EV to be just barely not viable enough for other cases.

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#44

Post by jeffbee »

absolutelynobo wrote: post #41
jeffbee wrote: post #31

Battery buses are a solution ahead of their time. Any old bus is better than car-based transportation, so shifting modes from car to bus is more important than changing the energy source of the bus. If shifting from car to bus is impossible because of built environment, that's the first priority. Buses powered by batteries should be way down at the end of the TODO list. If you absolutely insist on having buses that a…

The stunning failure of Nikola or any other large-scale fuel cell company other than Toyota to deliver working FC vehicles really calls into question your characterization of hydrogen as “more mature” than batteries. Every FC vehicle is also an EV, just FYI. One would also wonder why China has ~0 fuel cell buses and tens of thousands of electric buses if FC is the more mature tech.

My city has a large fleet of fuel cell buses and has had them for over a decade, which suggests you don’t know what you are talking about.

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#45

Post by absolutelynobo »

jeffbee wrote: post #44
absolutelynobo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stunning failure of Nikola or any other large-scale fuel cell company other than Toyota to deliver working FC vehicles really calls into question your characterization of hydrogen as “more mature” than batteries. Every FC vehicle is also an EV, just FYI. One would also wonder why China has ~0 fuel cell buses and tens of thousands of electric buses if FC is the more mature tech.

My city has a large fleet of fuel cell buses and has had them for over a decade, which suggests you don’t know what you are talking about.

So you’re saying that the the unnamed town you’re in bought a few FC buses 10 years ago and is still maintaining them today? That’s great, but it’s also an anecdote.

Have they bought any recently? Have neighboring towns bought in as well?

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#46

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #43
jeffbee wrote: post #31

Battery buses are a solution ahead of their time. Any old bus is better than car-based transportation, so shifting modes from car to bus is more important than changing the energy source of the bus. If shifting from car to bus is impossible because of built environment, that's the first priority. Buses powered by batteries should be way down at the end of the TODO list. If you absolutely insist on having buses that a…

Buses and other "same route local delivery" type vehicles are a prime candidate for electrification TODAY because the short and known daily mileage plus always returning to the same spot at downtime sidesteps a lot of the range/charger problems that push EV to be just barely not viable enough for other cases.

[deleted]

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#47

Post by KaiserPro »

londons_explore wrote: post #8
nathanaldensr wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire point is that you can't "deal" with it. Since car batteries contain the fuel and the oxidizer, there isn't a way to separate them short of blowing the whole thing up. Fires can stop and start spontaneously, and often do (see pictures and videos of Teslas on fire in junkyards).

Electric cars could totally be designed to be re-ignite-proof. For example, you'd have the battery pack detect a breach - for example through a lack of pressurised coolant. That would then trigger each battery cell to have a PTC resistor discharge it - that could be entirely mechanical. The PTC resistors would discharge the battery in a few hours, maintaining the battery temperature at say 120C. As water is doused on…

So in a thermal event, where integrity of the coolant is compromised, you want to dump more heat into the system?

Its not just the electrical issues at play, its the fact that hot battery fluid burns spontaneously with exposure to air (I suspect also water, but I'm less sure about that)

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#48

Post by drooby »

> As a result of the fire, the electric bus fleet was pulled from service as a precaution, Rickman said.

> “The importance of rider safety is demonstrated by taking these buses out of service and ensuring a thorough investigation is completed prior to any redeployment of the fleet,” Rickman said.

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#49

Post by KaiserPro »

GiorgioG wrote: post #7

As much progress has been made in EVs, I have no interest in sitting atop of a napalm bomb while zipping around town. There's a few problems that keep me from being remotely interested in EVs, this is one of them. The others are range anxiety, energy storage portability and battery replacement costs. If I run out of gas on the side of the highway, I call AAA and they can deliver me a couple of gallons of gas or I can…

> sitting atop of a napalm bomb while zipping around town.

you do know what napalm is made of right?

petrol is really really nasty flammable shit. crashed cars catch fire, a lot.

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#50

Post by jeffbee »

absolutelynobo wrote: post #45
jeffbee wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My city has a large fleet of fuel cell buses and has had them for over a decade, which suggests you don’t know what you are talking about.

So you’re saying that the the unnamed town you’re in bought a few FC buses 10 years ago and is still maintaining them today? That’s great, but it’s also an anecdote. Have they bought any recently? Have neighboring towns bought in as well?

I see that you are doubling down on the “don’t know what you’re talking about” aspect of this debate. My local transit agency is AC Transit. It serves millions of people in several large cities. Last year it ordered fifty more fuel cell vehicles from its suppliers.

https://www.actransit.org/zeb

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