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After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

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11–20 of 148 posts

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#11

IMO this is an aspect of the shift to EV's that I don't hear all that many people talking about- is the gov giving enough resources/training to local emergency services providers to deal with these sorts of fires and the disposal of the EV materials after a fire. Totally surmountable, but I feel like I don't hear the federal gov talk about it much and instead the focus is on more chargers and tax credits to eliminate…

> is the gov giving enough resources/training to local emergency services providers to deal with these sorts of fires and the disposal of the EV materials after a fire.

The main immediate threat is not disposal or even fire itself but the release of hydrogen fluoride _during_ a fire. You have to avoid airway and eye exposure at all cost with HF. This is probably the main difference in an EV emergency response as opposed to other chemical fires.

The second main issue is securing an electrically safe chasis during crash and vehicle extraction (if you need to start chopping the car up to extract someone), you need to know what to cut and when.

This unfortunately varies wildly, model to model, with manufacturers adding battery packs in multiple locations for space and weight management. I know there has been a lot of effort in standardizing charging systems, perhaps we also need some form of emergency service kill switch, but this being HN that could also introduce a massive potential for abuse.

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#12
post #7

As much progress has been made in EVs, I have no interest in sitting atop of a napalm bomb while zipping around town. There's a few problems that keep me from being remotely interested in EVs, this is one of them. The others are range anxiety, energy storage portability and battery replacement costs. If I run out of gas on the side of the highway, I call AAA and they can deliver me a couple of gallons of gas or I can…

The napalm bomb you're speaking of is made of gasoline. Which is in most cars and vehicles on the road. So you're less afraid of something designed to catch fire and explode (gas) than something that is designed to operate safely at it's core (batteries)? That just doesn't make sense.

Other than being afraid of new technology. And that's totally ok. Its fine to say you don't like change or new technologies. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. In everything we've done, there is always someone willing to lead the way, and others that will follow.

And the range anxiety is not really applicable to a bus. In fact you could say this is really the perfect use case for an EV.

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#13
post #7

As much progress has been made in EVs, I have no interest in sitting atop of a napalm bomb while zipping around town. There's a few problems that keep me from being remotely interested in EVs, this is one of them. The others are range anxiety, energy storage portability and battery replacement costs. If I run out of gas on the side of the highway, I call AAA and they can deliver me a couple of gallons of gas or I can…

> If your EV runs out of juice, you have to have it towed to a charging station.

Maybe that's the situation near you currently, but as EVs get more popular, these services will as well. It's just inevitable.

https://thedriven.io/2022/02/01/melbourne-start-up-launches-...

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#14
post #7

As much progress has been made in EVs, I have no interest in sitting atop of a napalm bomb while zipping around town. There's a few problems that keep me from being remotely interested in EVs, this is one of them. The others are range anxiety, energy storage portability and battery replacement costs. If I run out of gas on the side of the highway, I call AAA and they can deliver me a couple of gallons of gas or I can…

(I'm not a driver, but I learned about this in German driving school)

> If I run out of gas on the side of the highway, I call AAA and they can deliver me a couple of gallons of gas or I can walk to a gas station. If your EV runs out of juice, you have to have it towed to a charging station.

AFAICT, if your diesel car runs out of fuel (completely), it also needs to get towed, maybe even to a garage to get serviced.

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#15
post #7

As much progress has been made in EVs, I have no interest in sitting atop of a napalm bomb while zipping around town. There's a few problems that keep me from being remotely interested in EVs, this is one of them. The others are range anxiety, energy storage portability and battery replacement costs. If I run out of gas on the side of the highway, I call AAA and they can deliver me a couple of gallons of gas or I can…

> If your EV runs out of juice, you have to have it towed to a charging station. Maybe that's the situation near you currently, but as EVs get more popular, these services will as well. It's just inevitable. https://thedriven.io/2022/02/01/melbourne-start-up-launches-...

I'm sure AA vehicles will - if they already aren't - be supplied with a generator to put some juice back into electric vehicles on the roadside. Probably lighter, more compact, and less hassle than carrying around spare batteries.

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#16
post #7

As much progress has been made in EVs, I have no interest in sitting atop of a napalm bomb while zipping around town. There's a few problems that keep me from being remotely interested in EVs, this is one of them. The others are range anxiety, energy storage portability and battery replacement costs. If I run out of gas on the side of the highway, I call AAA and they can deliver me a couple of gallons of gas or I can…

AAA has offered mobile charging for electric vehicles for over 10 years.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15346575/placebo-on-wheel...

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#17
post #7

As much progress has been made in EVs, I have no interest in sitting atop of a napalm bomb while zipping around town. There's a few problems that keep me from being remotely interested in EVs, this is one of them. The others are range anxiety, energy storage portability and battery replacement costs. If I run out of gas on the side of the highway, I call AAA and they can deliver me a couple of gallons of gas or I can…

The napalm bomb you're speaking of is made of gasoline. Which is in most cars and vehicles on the road. So you're less afraid of something designed to catch fire and explode (gas) than something that is designed to operate safely at it's core (batteries)? That just doesn't make sense. Other than being afraid of new technology. And that's totally ok. Its fine to say you don't like change or new technologies. There is…

Lithium batteries are dangerous in a way gasoline tanks are not: while a punctured tank (say, due to a unlucky collision with a piece of debris or a crash) is dangerous, it does not guarantee a fire or explosion. A punctured lithium cell will almost always burn.

There are also more ways to screw up a battery. Overcharging, manufacturing defects, and so forth. A gas tank is literally a chunk of cast metal with a pump in it.

Additionally, metal fires are severely hard to fight. Gas fires can be extinguished in the usual ways, but a self-oxidizing metal fire require special considerations, and that's if it can be reasonably extinguished at all. That isn't even mentioning the need to de–energize the battery before attempting a rescue.

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#18
post #7

As much progress has been made in EVs, I have no interest in sitting atop of a napalm bomb while zipping around town. There's a few problems that keep me from being remotely interested in EVs, this is one of them. The others are range anxiety, energy storage portability and battery replacement costs. If I run out of gas on the side of the highway, I call AAA and they can deliver me a couple of gallons of gas or I can…

The napalm bomb you're speaking of is made of gasoline. Which is in most cars and vehicles on the road. So you're less afraid of something designed to catch fire and explode (gas) than something that is designed to operate safely at it's core (batteries)? That just doesn't make sense. Other than being afraid of new technology. And that's totally ok. Its fine to say you don't like change or new technologies. There is…

You're both widely overestimating the fire risk. It shouldn't even be a consideration from the consumer perspective. The color of the car probably matters more.

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#19
While this is unfortunate to have happened, this says more about CT being smart and having an over abundance of caution, than lack of faith in a technology.

BART, which has been running for 50 years recently [1] had an issue with the heat that caused a train to derail. For several days that section of track was totally shut down. For weeks afterwards they ran the trains at an extremely low speed through the miles of surrounding track - for safety. It's been a month and I'm honestly not sure if they are running "at speed" again yet.

It's good to be cautious when you don't know the cause of an issue or aren't sure what happened. Someone could have shot the bus's battery... or it could be wired in a faulty manner... or they could have a design flaw. Lots of options, good to ground them until you know why. Lest we have another MAX8 debacle.

[1] https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2022/06/21/bart-train-partially...

Re: After bus fire, CT pulls electric fleet from service

#20
post #7

As much progress has been made in EVs, I have no interest in sitting atop of a napalm bomb while zipping around town. There's a few problems that keep me from being remotely interested in EVs, this is one of them. The others are range anxiety, energy storage portability and battery replacement costs. If I run out of gas on the side of the highway, I call AAA and they can deliver me a couple of gallons of gas or I can…

The napalm bomb you're speaking of is made of gasoline. Which is in most cars and vehicles on the road. So you're less afraid of something designed to catch fire and explode (gas) than something that is designed to operate safely at it's core (batteries)? That just doesn't make sense. Other than being afraid of new technology. And that's totally ok. Its fine to say you don't like change or new technologies. There is…

Diesel is generally considered a safer fuel than gasoline, it's a lot less gaseous or flammable.

That said, yeah it's not like ICE vehicles are any safer when it comes to fire hazards. They're probably easier to extinguish though; EV fires are a pain, to the point where fire brigades bring in containers, fill them with water and dump EV car wrecks into them until they've stopped reacting.

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