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Apple Interview – 1995

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Re: Apple Interview – 1995

#41

Post by deepGem »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #5

>I should pause here and point out that an interview at Apple was an all-day affair. Pairs of engineers would meet with and interview me for perhaps an hour. The first pair of engineers might grill me on some esoteric topic like code design, afterwards the next pair of engineers would sit down and maybe cover programming language specific questions. This took place in 1995, and sounds pretty much exactly like a techn…

My first interview out of college in 1999-2000 was something like this. A full day interview about designing the components of a TCP-IP stack interspersed with some personality/behaviour interviews. End of the day, you either knew you had an offer or you didn't. I had an offer. I would kill for such an interview experience now.

The last interview I attended stretched across a month or may be more. Glad I got the job but boy what a nightmare.

If someone told me today that I would finish all rounds of interviews in one day and this became a standard, even figuring out for hedging I would take a week off, schedule 5 interviews and be done.

Even fundraising for a startup doesn't take 2 months these days, whereas an interview will. That should tell you how broken the process is.

Re: Apple Interview – 1995

#42

Post by yodsanklai »

rockyj wrote: post #30
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #5

>I should pause here and point out that an interview at Apple was an all-day affair. Pairs of engineers would meet with and interview me for perhaps an hour. The first pair of engineers might grill me on some esoteric topic like code design, afterwards the next pair of engineers would sit down and maybe cover programming language specific questions. This took place in 1995, and sounds pretty much exactly like a techn…

I would take a 1 day multiple round interview any day. Nowadays, it is like - - Recruiter reaches out on LinkedIn. You reply. - Call with recruiter, repeat every thing in resume. Recruiter says ok, sometimes they just say we were looking for X years in Python to a JS programmer. - First call with a manager (after 1 week) to check fit. - Take home programming assignment (spend 4-6 hours on weekend). - If code review i…

My experience is:

- recruiter calls and brief about interview process

- take screening interview (algorithm)

- go on site for 5 more interviews (algorithms, system design, behavior)

- failed, and study leetcode for 2 years

- reiterate

-> 100% raise, $10000 sign-on bonus

Overall, this is the best ROI of my whole life

Re: Apple Interview – 1995

#43

Post by muststopmyths »

mikelevins wrote: post #38
chrchang523 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're misevaluating your technical interview performance. You can feel like you're "bombing" an interview, while still performing above expectation. Some interviewers ask hard technical questions, don't expect most candidates to complete them within the allotted time, and give "hire" recommendations for some (but of course not all) that don't.

I can see why it sounds that way. Let me supply some context. I cannot answer any question in conversation with a stranger unless the answer is something I happen to know off the top of my head, or the question is about what I can see or feel or remember in the moment. It's related to a general sort of cognitive disability I have that shows up in several other ways. For example, if I'm driving and you engage me in co…

Interesting. I have this exact same problem. I gave up applying for regular jobs eventually as it was so demoralizing. Only work contracts through contacts now. It pays the bills, so I can’t really complain I suppose

Re: Apple Interview – 1995

#44

Post by rockyj »

yodsanklai wrote: post #42
rockyj wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would take a 1 day multiple round interview any day. Nowadays, it is like - - Recruiter reaches out on LinkedIn. You reply. - Call with recruiter, repeat every thing in resume. Recruiter says ok, sometimes they just say we were looking for X years in Python to a JS programmer. - First call with a manager (after 1 week) to check fit. - Take home programming assignment (spend 4-6 hours on weekend). - If code review i…

My experience is: - recruiter calls and brief about interview process - take screening interview (algorithm) - go on site for 5 more interviews (algorithms, system design, behavior) - failed, and study leetcode for 2 years - reiterate -> 100% raise, $10000 sign-on bonus Overall, this is the best ROI of my whole life

Maybe possible in the US. Have not experienced this in any other place.

Re: Apple Interview – 1995

#45

Post by mikelevins »

antihero wrote: post #31
chrchang523 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're misevaluating your technical interview performance. You can feel like you're "bombing" an interview, while still performing above expectation. Some interviewers ask hard technical questions, don't expect most candidates to complete them within the allotted time, and give "hire" recommendations for some (but of course not all) that don't.

I think a good interview puts you in a position where you are struggling and out of your expertise - being able to demonstrate you have a solution for a bunch of stuff is less important than being able to demonstrate how you do when you don’t know and have to figure it out.

In the general case, maybe you're right. In my specific case, "struggling" and "out of your expertise" doesn't describe it. It doesn't matter whether your question deals with my expertise or not; if it's technical and it requires me to actually think about it, I will be unable to answer in an interview setting. My mind will be completely blank.

Now, that's just me. Maybe I'm completely unique. Maybe there aren't any other programmers like me, and maybe nobody has to care about my individual quirks.

I don't have to care about them, either, because there seem to be enough people in the world who want to hire me. The only attention I need to pay to it is avoiding technical interviews to the extent that I can.

Re: Apple Interview – 1995

#46

Post by mikelevins »

muststopmyths wrote: post #43
mikelevins wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see why it sounds that way. Let me supply some context. I cannot answer any question in conversation with a stranger unless the answer is something I happen to know off the top of my head, or the question is about what I can see or feel or remember in the moment. It's related to a general sort of cognitive disability I have that shows up in several other ways. For example, if I'm driving and you engage me in co…

Interesting. I have this exact same problem. I gave up applying for regular jobs eventually as it was so demoralizing. Only work contracts through contacts now. It pays the bills, so I can’t really complain I suppose

It's nice to know that I'm not the only one.

Re: Apple Interview – 1995

#47

Post by duxup »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #5

>I should pause here and point out that an interview at Apple was an all-day affair. Pairs of engineers would meet with and interview me for perhaps an hour. The first pair of engineers might grill me on some esoteric topic like code design, afterwards the next pair of engineers would sit down and maybe cover programming language specific questions. This took place in 1995, and sounds pretty much exactly like a techn…

Kinda depends on who it is and how it goes.

Provided I'm a significant way through the hiring process spending a day in person with people who seem relevant to he job would be fine provided I liked the company / had confidence in the process / liked the job.

A family member recently applied for a job and got invites for 12 hours of meetings over 2.5 weeks. No sense of where they were in the hiring process. No significant questions had been answered about the job. At least half the people in the invite were not directly involved with the job / HR types ....

I think what people get upset about is how seemingly meandering these interviews are now / interviewing with people who don't know jack squat and so on.

Re: Apple Interview – 1995

#48

Post by twawaaay »

2143 wrote: post #21
twawaaay wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, people were not. What changed is the demand grew enormously and in response, as in every other business of life, a lot of people who only have passing interest in it got into it because it pays well. So now you have companies have to sort through huge pile of mediocre candidates. This causes the process to be very noisy, a lot of screwed incentives and a lot of false positives and negatives. Applicants are now he…

> Bad news is that most people are not good developers and they don't even know about it How do I know if I'm good? Like, before applying, so that I don't have to waste anybody's time.

It is an excellent question. Having an answer to it would be very valuable and I spent a lot of time thinking about it but found no conclusive answer. Sadly.

First of all, I do not condemn people trying to do their best to legally provide for themselves even if it means trying to get the job that they are not qualified for (as long as it is legal). Just look at our politicians. I might take an issue if you are straight lying about facts and your abilities.

But at the same time I think I am fully justified to politely refuse to be the sucker that hires them.

One reason you may want to know if you are qualified for the job is if you want to stay there for longer. Sometimes for some people stability over long term pays more than constantly getting jobs that are just above your level.

Re: Apple Interview – 1995

#49

Post by magic_hamster »

This was a great read. Some commenters discussed the nature of the interview, and compared it to today. But personally I get this feeling that this was still in a time when software was developed mostly in bubbles. Knowing how to code was far less obvious back then than it is today, and knowing the right stack meant you could get hired on the spot. Also, I don't know of it's nostalgia, the way it's written or something else, but it feels like a lot of engineering stories from that period have a certain sense of pioneering or discovery, while it's definitely far reduced today.

Re: Apple Interview – 1995

#50

Post by baxtr »

morley wrote: post #7

> though not the cleverest engineer, [I] was one that worked quickly to prototype new ideas and took on some of the gruntwork that not every engineer wanted to work on. This is basically all I want from anyone I work with.

My first manager told me: Grunt work is also work. Someone needs to do it. He was spot on.

What I observe with many founders I interact with is that they want to focus on the exciting stuff. Building the product etc. Most of them don’t want to be bothered with boring stuff like financial planning, which sometimes breaks their necks.

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