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The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

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Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#121

Post by walterbell »

p_l wrote: post #118
fsflover wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And they are implemented using all the evil things like Secure Boot, TPM, and Pluton. There is nothing evil with TPM when you fully control it. See: Librem Key.

You either don't remember or wasn't there when TPMs were first talked about, in either case I envy you then. And yes, there's nothing evil involved if they are owner controlled, something that honestly was heavily Microsoft pushed because they do have clients that insist on them - the DRM functionality in intel ME has keys controlled by broadcasting associations instead (this is why you can't stream HQ on Linux from…

> owner-control of hw should be enshrined in law

Have you seen OCP's Caliptra RoT, which requires OSS firmware, enforced by dual-signing of firmware by both OEM and owner? Currently for hyper-scalers, but this approach can be adopted by other enterprise customers, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PlCm4tLb8. Attestation will be done to Caliptra, which can then release SoC boot ROM from reset.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#122

Post by hammyhavoc »

metadat wrote: post #2

Ew. Why are all the chip manufacturers going along with this stupid plan? I want to buy a processor and then own it and have it work in my best interests, not consume electricity and generatie heat enforcing draconian 3rd party DRM policies.

Because owning your device is a nice bedtime story we've been told for quite some time now since the iPhone became the norm.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#123

Post by LaputanMachine »

__void wrote: post #66

nowadays 98% of things implying "security" are actually unwanted products, protections for "the other side" or trivial distortions of reality where, conveyed by "security" itself, the user himself becomes the product - no, I don't need protections for the side channel, I never asked for them - no, I don't need a unique identifier, who is the demented person who asked you for it - no, I am not going to glitch the powe…

> no, I am not going to glitch the power supply, and even if I did it means I am interested in doing it and wish it worked instead I was prevented from doing it

Are you talking about brown-out detection circuits, or is there something else?

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#124

Post by npteljes »

Aeolun wrote: post #89
fulafel wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, lots of Linux devices apply it like that today: You can't use your banking app or consume DRM crippled media on your Android phone if you have root or run a open source Android distribution.

> if you have root Because god forbid you have control of your own PC?

Yep! Basically, it's safer if you don't own your PC. Think about users with a million toolbars and Bonzi Buddy installed.

Of course, the system for it is rudimentary, and puts a disproportionate amount of control in the hands of providers. And that works very well for them too.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#125

Post by hammyhavoc »

throwaway14356 wrote: post #23
metadat wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple solution: don't care about up or down -votes. Believe me, Internet points are a sham and waste of time. Focus on interesting conversations and connections instead.

It is much worse than he thinks. If I was to write out the worse case scenario the MS employee would have no choice but to consider it. Therefore win 13 will be a theme for ubuntu packaged with a FOSS version of office. MS will award large weekly prizes for the most useful FOSS app extending the eco system. It will be sold on multi TB external drives that work like live USB only daisy chained. Weekly new releases cra…

This is word soup.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#126

Post by bitwize »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #43
sillysaurusx wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it okay to talk about language as a meta-topic? I try not to stray too far into that, since it’s usually boring for readers. But one thing I was surprised to learn is that “begs the question” is only correct when you’re describing a chain of circular logic. “Raises the question” is apparently the right term for the general case. I felt a little duped, since I’d been using “begs the question” for years without look…

I purposefully "misuse" the phrase "begging the question" to mean the same thing as the grandparent, because I want to do my part to change what this phrase means. Using "begging the question" to mean something as obscure and unintuitive (as in, it's basically an idiom that must be explained first) as "your question originates from circular logic" is a waste of prime dictionary space. This term should mean "there is…

"'When I use a word,' Humpty-Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'"

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#127

Post by palata »

nine_k wrote: post #94
squiffsquiff wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it's fantastic in a corporate environment. Not so fantastic for personal devices. Basically this: https://youtu.be/XgFbqSYdNK4

Well, don't put that on a personal device. It's like your company giving you serious protecting gear to wear while doing your work on a nuclear reactor is a good thing. But having to wear such gear at home is not a popular choice, and should not be required.

How do you choose what you put in your CPU? What when Windows forces you to have that kind of hardware?

You can choose not to wear that gear, but choosing to not use Windows is much more complicated, at least for most people.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#128

Post by npteljes »

__void wrote: post #66

nowadays 98% of things implying "security" are actually unwanted products, protections for "the other side" or trivial distortions of reality where, conveyed by "security" itself, the user himself becomes the product - no, I don't need protections for the side channel, I never asked for them - no, I don't need a unique identifier, who is the demented person who asked you for it - no, I am not going to glitch the powe…

Absolutely. Security is just a PR term for these, like how "think of the children" narrative is pushed when pushing for certain legislations.

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#129

Post by hammyhavoc »

arpa wrote: post #81
vladvasiliu wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imagine if assertion becomes popular for things such as [...] digital movies You don't need that. Streaming is already crippled on Linux. Hell, Netflix won't even stream full quality on Chrome! > https://help.netflix.com/en/node/13444 4K Ultra HD on a computer Netflix is available in Ultra HD on Windows and Mac computers with: Microsoft Edge for Windows Windows app for Windows 10 and Windows 11 Safari for MacOS 11.…

... and this is why piracy will always continue to be a viable alternative.

Until access to the internet or methods of circumventing DRM are crippled without submitting to these technologies. That's the road we're heading down. Can't hack the current-gen Xbox, apparently. I'm wondering if someone will take that as a "challenge accepted".

Re: The Dangers of Microsoft Pluton

#130

Post by hammyhavoc »

UberFly wrote: post #37

I've always thought that at some point the only "stomachable" version of windows is going to be some hacked offering, by god-knows-who or from where, but it'll still end up being preferable to what MS is requiring.

Isn't that the way it's been for several versions now with scripts to disable all the telemetry and shovelware?
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