An Economy of Overfed Middlemen • Hacker News Board

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#81

Post by pessimizer » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 7:43 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #6

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a monopolist is efficient, then nationalization is efficient. Break them up or seize them.

That does not follow. "The monopolist can do this efficiently" != "the government can do this efficiently". In particular, the monopolist has given evidence of knowing how to run that operation well. The government has given no such evidence. I'm not a fan of monopolies, but your position is flawed.

The monopolist is just some asshole with advisors. If the government can't hire advisors, shut it down, it's pointless.

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#82

Post by anamax » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 7:45 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #59

anamax wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citizens United said that you and I have the same right to band together to engage in political speech as the New York Times.

Sure, and it should have said New York Times is not a person and therefore gets no say in any matter. The Pareto bit I mentioned means even if we band together they ultimately have disproportionate resources. It's employees / shareholders et al can vote how they like, but that's different than the New York Times (or Russia for that matter), swaying an election.

Zuckerberg has more resources than me.

Not letting me get together with other people helps Zuckerberg.

As far as the NYT goes, feel free to argue against the 1st Amendment. CU just says that the NYT isn't special, that the 1st applies to using tools, not organizations who have named themselves after said tools.

Govt regulation always favors the well-heeled.

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#83

Post by JonShartwell » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 7:57 PM UTC

rahimnathwani wrote: post #15

Middlemen (e.g. wholesalers and retailers) serve a valuable function. Imagine each consumer having to maintain relationships with hundreds of factory owners and tens of farmers.

The only difference between a manufacturer’s online store and a retailer’s from customer point of view is that the retailer sells multiple brands. I guess maybe there’s some value if you want to browse different brands, but if you already know what you want then the middleman is not providing you any benefit at all over the manufacturer’s online store.

Brick and mortar is different because they’re actually maintaining a space to show the items and bringing them close to you which is a benefit to the buyer.

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#84

Post by maerF0x0 » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 8:10 PM UTC

anamax wrote: post #82

maerF0x0 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and it should have said New York Times is not a person and therefore gets no say in any matter. The Pareto bit I mentioned means even if we band together they ultimately have disproportionate resources. It's employees / shareholders et al can vote how they like, but that's different than the New York Times (or Russia for that matter), swaying an election.

Zuckerberg has more resources than me. Not letting me get together with other people helps Zuckerberg. As far as the NYT goes, feel free to argue against the 1st Amendment. CU just says that the NYT isn't special, that the 1st applies to using tools, not organizations who have named themselves after said tools. Govt regulation always favors the well-heeled.

> Zuckerberg has more resources than me.

Yes but there is are rules & caps for political contributions: https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate...

I'm not arguing against 1st, I'm arguing that a business (not a person) has speech or a 1st right (which people absolutely do), and that the net result of acting like they do is really hurting the citizens of America.

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#85

Post by skippyboxedhero » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 8:10 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #66

jollyllama wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Imagine each consumer having to maintain relationships with ... tens of farmers Farmers' markets are great.

here in chicago most of them aren't even farmers. They are just middlemen.

It turns out manufacturing and distribution aren't the same business (food is a perfect example, there are used to be multiple layers of wholesalers, supermarkets took that all away...if you take them away, you get the layers of wholesalers...I will also say, farmer's markets aren't as clean, no-one today knows how unclean food used to be before supermarkets but that is another major reason why they exist).

You would have thought that a former policymaker/lobbyist would have known better than the market...he went to Harvard you known. But it turns out that there is a reason why businesses have been organized this way for the past three centuries.

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#86

Post by jeromegv » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 8:16 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #66

jollyllama wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Imagine each consumer having to maintain relationships with ... tens of farmers Farmers' markets are great.

here in chicago most of them aren't even farmers. They are just middlemen.

Somehow people expect to buy straight from the farmers at the farmers market located in the downtown of a large city, ignoring the fact that the farmers do need to.. farm their land. Traveling with their goods back and forth within the city isn't really an efficient use of their time.

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#87

Post by cwmma » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 8:20 PM UTC

rahimnathwani wrote: post #15

Middlemen (e.g. wholesalers and retailers) serve a valuable function. Imagine each consumer having to maintain relationships with hundreds of factory owners and tens of farmers.

Yeah the point of the article is if you can monopolize that layer you can extract enormous rent, especially if you get yourself exempted from the law against kickbacks which pharmacy middlemen did.

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#88

Post by count » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 8:20 PM UTC

This feels like he's copying Stratechery, down to the stick figure MS Paint diagrams (e.g. https://stratechery.com/2018/the-bill-gates-line/)

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#89

Post by adamrezich » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 8:23 PM UTC

count wrote: post #88

This feels like he's copying Stratechery, down to the stick figure MS Paint diagrams (e.g. https://stratechery.com/2018/the-bill-gates-line/ )

lots of blogs are like this though, using quick-and-dirty visually-accessible illustrations to convey ideas.

Re: An Economy of Overfed Middlemen

#90

Post by clairity » Mon, Jul 25, 2022, 8:24 PM UTC

int_19h wrote: post #76

clairity wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and that's why i commented. thiel is an idle opportunist, not an innovator or thought leader, and should be disregarded in such confines.

Thiel didn't claim to have invented this strategy. The reason why people associate him with monopolies is because he claimed that they're better for the consumers . And he wasn't the first to make that argument, either - it's straight from Bork's "The Antitrust Paradox" - Thiel just happened to be the most prominent "big tech" voice who openly embraced this notion.

he was one of the few because the idea that monopolies were good for consumers is about a 5th grader's level of thinking. in a perfect world where monopolies serve a single, narrow segment, don't overreach into adjacent markets or sociopolitics, and there's no general uncertainty or strife, you might argue they'd be a more efficient than multiple market participants, but we live in a dynamic and ever-changing world where that kind of thinking is laughably simplistic. monopolists can't resist distorting markets for their own benefit.